global dimming and warming

[dreamer]

No need for a tag, it's done remotely! lazer technology must be there for something.

Oh yeah ? And in 1880, 1900, 1920, 1950 ... etc etc? I clearly specified "before the satellites" ...

In short, I am convinced that when we talk about global average T ° of the globe before the modern global satellite measurement method we compare 2 magnitudes by comparable ... because not measured equal ...

In short, pipo from pipo ... The reality can therefore be "worse" as "better" ...

The local measures, as for it remains fair ... and are much "worse" in places besides ...

Uh it is not the ice cores that provide information on the levels of pollen, and various gases, which calculate the temperature of then?

It's weird that you do not know this when you're the big manitou of this site? : p

[Remundo]

Hello everybody

It is important to say that clouds are favorable or unfavorable to global warming.

Clouds indeed have contradictory actions on this subject, and in addition, it may depend on their chemical nature and their altitude.

To summarize,
* as regards their reflective properties:
- they better reflect direct sunlight
MAIS
- they also reflect infrared radiation emanating from the ground

* with regard to their absorbent properties
they contain esssentially water vapor that aborbs as well
- the infrared part of the solar rays
- Infrared emitted by the ground.
This aborption is reemitted roughly to 50 / 50 to space and ground.

On the other hand, it is known that dusty and opaque clouds, especially those resulting from volcanic eruptions, or from a nuclear winter, cause the temperature to fall systematically.

For non-opaque clouds, such as low-density black carbonaceous particles, the effect is rather opposite, as in a greenhouse where the radiation penetrates properly and where the IR is partially returned to the ground.

I personally think that clouds have a very weak effect on global warming, one way or the other.

The real danger comes from:
- the extension of our economy to fossil hydrocarbons
- the initiation or not of the "methane pump" if the warming destabilizes the methane hydrates at the bottom of the oceans.

@+

[denis]

good an extract (chemtrail):

"to provide maximum protection. Ideally this would be a single application that would remain suspended for years, however barium, aluminum, and other traces of elements are much heavier than air and come down rather quickly. The differences of temperature between day and night cause massive air volumes to rise during the night, warm air trapped on the surface rises above the cooler air. areas during the night we have the advantage of ... Etc. "

[Leo Maximus]

Hello everybody
It is important to say that clouds are favorable or unfavorable to global warming.
Clouds indeed have contradictory actions on this subject, and in addition, it may depend on their chemical nature and their altitude.
To summarize,
* as regards their reflective properties:
- they better reflect direct sunlight
MAIS
- they also reflect infrared radiation emanating from the ground
* with regard to their absorbent properties
they contain esssentially water vapor that aborbs as well
- the infrared part of the solar rays
- Infrared emitted by the ground.
This aborption is reemitted roughly to 50 / 50 to space and ground.
On the other hand, it is known that dusty and opaque clouds, especially those resulting from volcanic eruptions, or from a nuclear winter, cause the temperature to fall systematically.
For non-opaque clouds, such as low-density black carbonaceous particles, the effect is rather opposite, as in a greenhouse where the radiation penetrates properly and where the IR is partially returned to the ground.
I personally think that clouds have a very weak effect on global warming, one way or the other.
The real danger comes from:
- the extension of our economy to fossil hydrocarbons
- the initiation or not of the "methane pump" if the warming destabilizes the methane hydrates at the bottom of the oceans.
@+

It is based on the model of the planet Venus which has an extraordinary thickness of clouds and the greenhouse effect is maximum there.

[Remundo]

It is based on the model of the planet Venus which has an extraordinary thickness of clouds and the greenhouse effect is maximum there.

Hello Maximus Leo,

So in this case, the results are not extrapolable to the Earth. Indeed, the atmosphere of Venus contains 96% of CO2, under 90 pressure bar, while ours less than 0,5% at 1 pressure bar (and even less, but I do not remember the exact fraction anymore. ..)

The nature of Venus' clouds is very different: they are sulfuric acid droplets H2SO4, no H2O water vapor.

All this creates a colossal greenhouse effect and atmospheric temperatures happily exceed 200 or 300 ° C. In short, Venus is not at all welcoming

@+

[Leo Maximus]

It is based on the model of the planet Venus which has an extraordinary thickness of clouds and the greenhouse effect is maximum there.

Hello Maximus Leo,
So in this case, the results are not extrapolable to the Earth. Indeed, the atmosphere of Venus contains 96% of CO2, under 90 pressure bar, while ours less than 0,5% at 1 pressure bar (and even less, but I do not remember the exact fraction anymore. ..)
The nature of Venus' clouds is very different: they are sulfuric acid droplets H2SO4, no H2O water vapor.
All this creates a colossal greenhouse effect and atmospheric temperatures happily exceed 200 or 300 ° C. In short, Venus is not at all welcoming
@+

It is not a matter of extrapolating the results to the Earth as Venus rotates very slowly, just over a turn a year and its atmosphere turns very fast in about 4 days, but astrophysicists claim that the greenhouse effect on Venus would not be due to CO2 but to water vapor yet in very small quantities in the atmosphere.
On Earth, in deserts, in the Sahara for example, the rate of CO2 is roughly the same as elsewhere but the greenhouse effect is very low because the rate of water vapor is very low. So ?

[gegyx]

Must we learn to terraform Venus, to hope to save the earth some day? ...


For the Sahara, the ground reflects a good part of the solar rays received.

If you have the opportunity to have and understand data, compare with a large body of water. There is then, the albedo, but also the water vapor ...

[dreamer]

Bonjour.
I like that the debates are launched

I wonder ... is there no serious and far-reaching study on the actual effect of clouds on the climate?
This surprises me, I will search the net tomorrow to see.

Otherwise it reminded me also of the fact that we know for ages (for those who are interested in a minimum) that the cloudy nights in winter are always warmer than the starry nights ....
As an amateur astronomer I did it all too well ... the most beautiful skies are synonymous with coldness: p

If not clearly the effect of clouds is probably very complicated, since in addition, it must also vary with different kinds of clouds ...
Surely an exciting subject.

++
gilou

[Leo Maximus]

I wonder ... is there no serious and far-reaching study on the actual effect of clouds on the climate?

« There are, in fact, about fifty or sixty different theories and, for the most part, mutually exclusive, etc. Carl Sagan said 35 years ago. Today, how many of these smoking theories are there? Thousand? Ten thousand ? More?

Otherwise it reminded me also of the fact that we know for ages (for those who are interested in a minimum) that the cloudy nights in winter are always warmer than the starry nights ....
As an amateur astronomer I did it all too well ... the most beautiful skies are synonymous with coldness: p

It should be noted that when the weather is over it is most of the time because the southwest wind brings warm, moist air that condenses into clouds. The wind from north or north-east brings us a cold and dry air, it quails the winter but it is there that we make the most beautiful atronomic observations, there is no clouds .

The main greenhouse gas is water vapor, not CO2. There is water vapor in the form of droplets and in the form of CO2 gases. In the form of droplets it reflects the light and in the form of gas it acts like the C02. So ?

[Remundo]

So we do not know Probably the antagonistic effects of the clouds are very close to offsetting each other ... But smart enough to prove it!