Greta facing the deputies

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eclectron
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by eclectron » 05/08/19, 08:52

to be chafoin wrote: What are the decisions that Greta defends?

Seriously ???
Are you really impervious to scientific information or even just information in the post?
If you're here, I do not see why Greta's speech disturbs you, since you do not hear it?
Catch-up:
Effectively fight against CR maybe? : Lol:
Not to say it at COP but ACT efficacement against the CR.
Meetings and the blah, that's all there is, and no meaningful action to fight the CR (GHG emissions).
If you want me to list solutions, I could do it, was it at that level that you wanted an answer?

I confess I do not really listen to Greta, since I already feel concerned by her cries of alarm, she teaches me nothing.
If my name was Greta and I had quilts, I would add: preserve resources, make an economy based on resources and not on money (market).

The most typical example is oil: The economy only works with oil between 40 $ and 80 $ a barrel (ladle).
At 150 $, the economy no longer works, the economy collapses.
The oil suppliers who want to sell, then lower their price and it "starts again". With a blow in the wing, but it starts again.
All this even if the price had increased following a contraction in volume (demand greater than supply, flow). The supply / demand regulation is not smooth linearly, everything "stops" and it starts again from below. It regulates in an undulating but damn undulating plateau, with significant impacts on people's lives between each roller coaster.
This is why liberal economists who believe in the virtues of the market are wrong. The price of oil will remain more or less constant until the "last drop". providers want their annuities, so sell.
The economy could run on oil at 150 $, if all bank loans and business forecasts were based on this parameter but as they are based implicitly on an oil between 40 $ or 80 $, as soon as price rises, the financial profitability is no longer there and all the house of cards collapses.
I do not know who said that oil is for 50% of GDP and not the few% of its purchase price.

This is why it would be reasonable to make a resource-based economy: Do we have the resources to do this or that? Is what "we" do really useful?
I proposed it here, the big technological innovations could be democratically ratified by a vote.
Certainly would be a world that would have some uniformity, everyone the same smartphone (basically where are the differences ???)

Sorry but mentally I must not be so far away from Greta (asperger), there is in my family: I do not understand that when we see something important, we do not act.
That's why the speeches Ahmed, sen no sen bristle my hair.
Hair that they cut in 4 to demolish any desire of action under the pretext that it is imperfect, incomplete (it misses a comma ...) it literally kills me to a point that they can not imagine.

Between those who are financially interested in inaction (corrupted by the truth of urgency) and those who play the perfectionists / defeatists and who will always find a good reason not to act or even discourage those who would like to act because that would return to their own inaction, those who are ideologically convinced that acting on the climate will hurt their individual freedom and it is wrong (as if the climate would care about it), those who are convinced that the RC is not human, it blablates and the warming continues.
The Greta in me is for a sustainable world as far as possible and that we act Actually in this direction.
in essence, fuck the economy! it's not the right level to solve the problems we face.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by Grelinette » 05/08/19, 11:17

"We do not solve the problems that have created it with the same ways of thinking that generated them". (A.Einstein).

In my opinion, this sentence sums up well the stalled situation in which humanity finds itself in the face of the problems it encounters and which are getting closer and closer, and also explains why all these conferences and COPs do not lead to anything.

Those who are responsible for a lot of the problems we face are also those who hold power, ie the political, financial, industrial and other powerful leaders of this world.

They are also the ones who decide to organize and participate in these COPs, discuss and debate the decisions to be taken and the actions to be taken ... and I will add "in the well-defined framework of their doctrine", which they do not seem ready to come out of.

The COP 21 held in Paris had been seen as a great unanimous success, based on a way out of the collapse of human societies, and all participants had congratulated and congratulated basis of a general consensus ...

Today we see that the balance sheet is a fiasco. What analysis can be done?

To put it simply, I would say that the agreements found and the decisions made remain in a disconnected bubble that preserves the interests of the few participants.

It is in this sense that I see that "marginal" characters like Greta Thunberg, and others, have more credible speeches than the consensual and formatted speeches of decision-makers.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by GuyGadebois » 08/08/19, 17:44

izentrop wrote:The fact that she has no opinion on CETA, which was ratified the same day, did not please some ...

By the way....
Question: "Today is the vote of Ceta. Many members say that it is a paradox that you come this day this vote is taking place. Is it a problem to be here that day? "
Answer: "Honestly, I do not care about the day. I have no opinion on this voteI came because I was simply invited
NO OPINION ON THE VOTE, JUST ON THE VOTE
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by Ahmed » 08/08/19, 18:08

Grelinette, you write:
It is in this sense that I see that "marginal" characters like Greta Thunberg, and others, have more credible speeches than the consensual and formatted speeches of decision-makers.

Greta Thunberg is not so marginal, otherwise it would not be able to express itself and if it is, it is because there is an objective coherence (that it is sincere, I do not doubt it but that does not change the instrumentalization of which it is the object) between what it exposes and the consensual speeches of the leaders.
Keeping everything going as before presupposes succeeding in creating economic growth and that is what the "ecological", energetic and whatever transition you want to imagine is supposed to produce. The only real difference I see between these different discourses (Greta Thunberg / decision-makers) is the objective pursued, displayed in one, hidden under a false identity in others ...
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by to be chafoin » 08/08/19, 22:13

eclectron wrote:
to be chafoin wrote: What are the decisions that Greta defends?

Seriously ???
Are you really impervious to scientific information or even just information in the post?
If you're here, I do not see why Greta's speech disturbs you, since you do not hear it?
Catch-up:
Effectively fight against CR maybe? : Lol:
Not to say it at COP but ACT efficacement against the CR.
Meetings and the blah, that's all there is, and no meaningful action to fight the CR (GHG emissions).
If you want me to list solutions, I could do it, was it at that level that you wanted an answer?

I confess I do not really listen to Greta, since I already feel concerned by her cries of alarm, she teaches me nothing.
If my name was Greta and I had quilts, I would add: preserve resources, make an economy based on resources and not on money (market).
Here it is about great principles, not decisions to take. Almost everyone agrees on these words that have become hollow by being excited about them screaming louder than his neighbor, frowning with puffed eyes of morality. Reread to convince the words in Newspeak MP LREM cited in the article of Liberation. Or listen to the new green trend of the Front National's lawyer, etc.

It is not about believing or not the possibility of a future collapse, science establishes it as a fact. What form will it take? This is the big unknown because it is very difficult to precisely measure the interactions between the different current crises. I am objectively worried. The upheavals we are experiencing are extremely brutal. This is true even on the scale of a human life. The men who will know the end of the century, the date at which the projections give to see an unbearable world, are already born. We have already entered the time of climate suffering. Climatologists realize that their projections, which many said were alarmist, underestimated the real effects. In the north of France, this spring, water restrictions had to be put in place. Who would have imagined this even fifteen years ago? It's New Normal.
Pascal Canfin (LREM)

That's why you (as you admit it yourself) and so many others surely, we all do not really listen to Greta ...
The question is rather: what to do? And when we ask this question we immediately see that we enter into deliberations that would lead to taking into account divergent points of view, conflicting situations of life ... It is not enough to press a button, to create a technology committee or follow the truths of the experts, even if they are recognized scientists. The IPCC has the lucidity of mind to say that its reports do not bring any ready-made political decision.
There are a number of important decisions to be made in different areas that would dramatically change our organization and our lives. For example, we need to change our modes of transportation, but how? The electric car for all? The train everywhere? And what is happening to the people who work through these current modes of transportation? And how to relocate activities when at the country's borders arrive astronomical quantities of cheap goods and when the same know-how here is lost? How can people and goods move less in a world where the mobility of people and goods is con-substantial to the economy?
All these questions to answer them in a collective and legitimate way, require broad consultations, renewed of the social body and citizen, with a real power of action and follow-up, but which are contradictory with the functioning of our current political "system". Also in my opinion, faced with these constraints, to appear before the French deputies to teach them a lesson in ethereal and stiff morality, is to confront the insignificance of one's action. But after all, maybe that's the New Normal too.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by izentrop » 09/08/19, 03:38

GuyGadebois wrote:
izentrop wrote:The fact that she has no opinion on CETA, which was ratified the same day, did not please some ...
By the way....
Question: "Today is the vote of Ceta. Many members say that it is a paradox that you come this day this vote is taking place. Is it a problem to be here that day? "
Answer: "Honestly, I do not care about the day. I have no opinion on this voteI came because I was simply invited
NO OPINION ON THE VOTE, JUST ON THE VOTE
I am not the only one to have misunderstood that day. It had to be repeated by opponents https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/201 ... ta_1741638
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by eclectron » 09/08/19, 09:00

to be chafoin wrote:The question is rather: what to do? And when we ask this question we immediately see that we enter into deliberations that would lead to taking into account divergent points of view, conflicting situations of life ....

It is quite simple for me, already a non-carbon and abundant energy, on a global scale.
For a country like France that does not have sufficient renewable energy resources, unlike Iceland or other, the solutions would be:
-Surgenators ... if it does not pose other hidden concerns or that I do not know and which are prohibitive.
- hydrogen transports. (Electrolysis of water with the electricity of the breeders)
- Agroecology.
- icing on the cake, out of the economic system where financial profitability leads the world and does not care about collateral destruction.
And here we are not too bad off, it seems to me?
Controversy welcome, I am not hyper-informed on these topics, as they are not problems that I can not solve on my individual scale.

By cons the 2 first measures that I just mentioned involve a massive investment and political baloches.
As politicians live in the short term (election) and have themselves created their powerlessness by making themselves worthwhile in the world of finance, which also navigates in the short term, nothing moves.

The decisions-makers" : Lol: are waiting for the constraint of a big poop (collapse) where it will be too late, say that there will be a lot of human and environmental damage and material conditions not at all favorable to the changes mentioned above.

Do you know when Noah built his boat?
it was before..
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eclectron
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by eclectron » 09/08/19, 09:40

As much is not all conspiracy, so we must not believe that nothing is conspiracy.
Not everyone has a stake in the world changing.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by GuyGadebois » 09/08/19, 13:44

izentrop wrote:
GuyGadebois wrote:
izentrop wrote:The fact that she has no opinion on CETA, which was ratified the same day, did not please some ...
By the way....
Question: "Today is the vote of Ceta. Many members say that it is a paradox that you come this day this vote is taking place. Is it a problem to be here that day? "
Answer: "Honestly, I do not care about the day. I have no opinion on this voteI came because I was simply invited
NO OPINION ON THE VOTE, JUST ON THE VOTE
I am not the only one to have misunderstood that day. It had to be repeated by opponents https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/201 ... ta_1741638

The question and the answer, however, were unambiguous.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by to be chafoin » 10/08/19, 00:40

eclectron wrote:As much is not all conspiracy, so we must not believe that nothing is conspiracy.
Not everyone has a stake in the world changing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0sB3DIQxQs
Say you cumulate them yourself. After the sectarian proselytism, the aliens, the hidden civilization and the exits of body, that is the Deep State !! whoever is behind all our ills, the one who organized the 11 September and who favors satanic rituals!
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