Le Potager du Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio

[JardinierAmateur]

ChristianC's comment (I do not know if we're talking about a comment on a forum ?) calls me all the same. I think I remember that you are in your first year of phenoculture? So, I will also tend to believe that the quality of hay is important, as you seem to prove. Maybe it will play less year after year, once life is there? What do you think ?

[ChristianC]

ChristianC's comment (I do not know if we're talking about a comment on a forum ?) calls me all the same. I think I remember that you are in your first year of phenoculture? So, I will also tend to believe that the quality of hay is important, as you seem to prove. Maybe it will play less year after year, once life is there? What do you think ?

Yes, we are in the first year of application of hay. But you see, the comparison has a bias: we did not deposit the hay at the same time AND the two hays are different. What is the reason for the low growth of the 1 plot between the quality of the hay and the removal period.

I did not illustrate the point by the case of other plants, but it is the same for beans.

I can not compare for garlic since I only planted on the plot 1 (straw hay) but the harvest is good for the cayeux planted in October and zero for those planted in March on the adjoining row.

Concerning the potatoes, I stopped the harvest started in + 110 days, waiting for the tops drying; I can then compare the results of the two plots.

Didier said last year that the deposit of hay could be done at any time; it serves first as a cover avoiding to leave a bare ground. But indeed, from August to the following April, this hay will have had time to mineralize, and we will have lost by leaching the benefits expected during planting / sowing.

As for C / N, for sure my "straw" hay does not have the quality of January cattle hay.

For next year we can make a new comparison: I will ask the same quality of hay at the same time (January). We will see if there is rebalancing.

[Did67]

I did not illustrate the point by the case of other plants, but it is the same for beans.

Ah !!!!!!!!!!!

This would tend to "shoot" what I have just written. Beans being legumes, having the ability to harbor and nourish bacteria ("Rhizobium") in the nodules of their root to "fix" atmospheric nitrogen, they should not suffer from a lack of assimilable nitrogen. ...

If this is the first time that there are beans here, it can be explained. Each legume has its "favorite strains", which are not necessarily present - which are not when you introduce a legume. Normally, in agriculture, they are "inoculated" then with "their" Rhizobium ... After that, it is no longer necessary, the strain survives on site in the form of spores ...

[Did67]

Maybe it will play less year after year, once life is there? What do you think ?

Absolutely. A whole series of mechanisms will help "regulate" the system towards fertile soil:

a) symbiotic attachment by legumes evoked

b) "nitrate trap" plants

c) the accumulation of organic matter already partially decomposed or "humic" (the stock of humic substances increases, year after year, so also the quantity of mineralized humic substances) ...

d) "neutralization" of the negative effects of any previous contributions of copper, fertilizers, etc ... thanks to an intense biological activity

e) installation of an active fauna / flora, adapted to the environment and to what you bring; installation / development of mycorrhizal fungi strains most adapted to cultivated vegetables, ...

AND probably others, which I do not think there.

[For these same reasons, the "low yield" of the mounds at the start fades over time; not that it is a good technique, but simply because the living one corrects the wanderings and errors of men ...]

[Moindreffor]

I did not illustrate the point by the case of other plants, but it is the same for beans.

If this is the first time that there are beans here, it can be explained. Each legume has its "favorite strains", which are not necessarily present - which are not when you introduce a legume. Normally, in agriculture, they are "inoculated" then with "their" Rhizobium ... After that, it is no longer necessary, the strain survives on site in the form of spores ...

I'm looking at the videos, maybe I'll have my answer, but can a seed contain rhizobium?

[Julienmos]

raspberries

I am still wondering ... having already two testimonies of people who had installed their raspberries at the same time as me; not last winter but last winter.

I had just planted them by digging small holes right in the grass of the meadow, then closing these holes, and in the end a good thick layer of fake BRF layer that I have thickened the last winter.

They had planted in the kitchen garden, mixing compost with their soil. Without putting neither BRF nor anything like mulching.

And it is clear that their plants have developed much better than mine, with already last summer a good harvest of fruit, while at home it is a raspberry or 2 every 3 or 4 days ...

Would raspberries be more sensitive to nitrogen fertilization than I thought?

[to be chafoin]

I did not illustrate the point by the case of other plants, but it is the same for beans.

This would tend to "shoot" what I have just written. Beans being legumes, having the ability to harbor and nourish bacteria ("Rhizobium") in the nodules of their root to "fix" atmospheric nitrogen, they should not suffer from a lack of assimilable nitrogen. ...

Perhaps the difference is also or mainly due to the issue of water, and not nitrogen. A hay cut late, more carbonaceous, is certainly less able to prevent evaporation than a young hay more nitrogenous and which will "vitrify" ...

Difficult in the end actually to draw conclusions ...
On the other hand, I noticed a rapid melting of my young hay cut, dried and grounded in April. Hence a major replenishment problem. It is surely the counterpart of a nitrogenous hay ... Question to ChristianC: difference of thickness at the beginning / in the end?

[ChristianC]

I did not illustrate the point by the case of other plants, but it is the same for beans.

This would tend to "shoot" what I have just written. Beans being legumes, having the ability to harbor and nourish bacteria ("Rhizobium") in the nodules of their root to "fix" atmospheric nitrogen, they should not suffer from a lack of assimilable nitrogen. ...

Perhaps the difference is also or mainly due to the issue of water, and not nitrogen. A hay cut late, more carbonaceous, is certainly less able to prevent evaporation than a young hay more nitrogenous and which will "vitrify" ...

Difficult in the end actually to draw conclusions ...
On the other hand, I noticed a rapid melting of my young hay cut, dried and grounded in April. Hence a major replenishment problem. It is surely the counterpart of a nitrogenous hay ... Question to ChristianC: difference of thickness at the beginning / in the end?

On this "straw hay" plot, the layer has settled down, going from a good twenty centimeters to 4-10cm; but of course, we have to reckon with our passages on the hay, between the rows, and we hardly moved the few wooden planks to avoid trampling.

For Didier: in fact, what I wrote is true concerning row beans (you can quickly see the difference!); on the two plots the beans were the feast of the slugs during the massive attacks, but more massive on the straw hay plot. We therefore supplemented by reseeding beans in the same places after the attacks; growth is therefore shifted over time on these new seedlings. So before concluding that my assertion "it's the same for beans" would fling your conclusion on atmospheric nitrogen-fixing legumes, I ask for a few weeks of local observations; I will re-specify today with a few additional photos specific to beans.

[JardinierAmateur]

Julienmos: I had the same problem. Young raspberry plants in false brf: yellow plants, trouble starting and no fruit .... At the time, I did not yet know the phenomenon of hunger nitrogen. They will still take two years to take off (it is more a place where the wind rushes). So yes, we must believe that if we put raspberry BRF, relieve themselves once a two to their foot can help

[Moindreffor]

Julienmos: I had the same problem. Young raspberry plants in false brf: yellow plants, trouble starting and no fruit .... At the time, I did not yet know the phenomenon of hunger nitrogen. They will still take two years to take off (it is more a place where the wind rushes). So yes, we must believe that if we put raspberry BRF, relieve themselves once a two to their foot can help

Beware of false BRF, it necessarily produces a nitrogen hunger (I have this year), at the feet of raspberries Didier puts "REAL" BRF, if we are not rigorous on certain things, we get what Didier explains , too much carbon = nitrogen hunger, then there is no mystery

currently, without rain, mowing grass dry surface but does not degrade, so no nitrogen assimilation, it does not compensate, not yet, while the hay well balanced him degrades

so if you want to do "like", you have to spare false BRF and mowing, and not do 2 layers, because in dry periods, it does not work, I am in this situation now, so I water, no more to degrade the mowing of turf than by necessity for plants