electric car and transport, the point 2010 start

[I Citro]

There are experts in electric cars in France, I know some, but they are not consulted ... not by the French ... But the Chinese, they respectfully come to collect their opinion and their precious experience ... __________
Everything has been done to sink the electric car!

seems to me to be a judgment based on subjective feelings rather than on objective scientific advice

I personally know people who, for almost a quarter of a century, have bought, managed and run fleets of several HUNDREDS of electric vehicles ... I do not see what is subjective in there !!!.
I'm not talking about feelings, I'm talking about FACTS !!!

The people I am talking about are not making a fuss, however foreign journalists have written books where they are quoted, my friend Christian is nicknamed "Mr. 300.000 km electric" ... The big difference between him and Syrota, or Janco it is because he knows what he is talking about other than in theory ... Syrota or Janco have never used an electric vehicle on a daily basis !!! This serious flaw distorts their judgment ...

Several thousand electric vehicles still circulate in France today in all discretion. I had the same reservations as you when they were used before taking the plunge, although convinced by the validity of the concept ... I now know that technique is not the problem and I was able to measure what was the power of nuisance of opponents to this technology ...

[I Citro]

I saw the documentary you mention "who killed the electric car", and I don't find that it aims to credit the "conspiracy theory", an expression used all the time to discredit people who " question "...

We shouldn't have seen the same.
You interpreted against all the demonstrations of the documentary, I don't really see what you understood ...

So to speak of "conspiracy theory" is a bit of an exaggeration.

Welcome to Les Bisounours.

[Gébé]

The people I am talking about do not make a splash, however foreign journalists have made books or they are quoted

An irrefutable pledge of the rationality of their theories ...

The big difference between him and Syrota, or Janco is that he knows what he is talking about other than in theory ... Syrota or Janco have never used an electric vehicle on a daily basis !!! This serious shortcoming distorts their judgment ...

Similarly, we cannot have an objective global vision of the problem of social housing in France if we are not masons .....


PS: 2nd degree always

[oiseautempete]

Sorry but the works of Colani that made me dream as a child, do not circulate in the streets ...

that's where you're wrong! indeed there are a lot of trucks (few in France it is true, except 1 at France Telecom ...) with Colani bodywork without counting other lesser-known achievements in subcontracting for various car manufacturers ... (Colani has even worked for a Chinese company)

[holowman]

In terms of hybrids, the Fiskers solution is very convincing:

http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/ (100% electric motion + petrol thermal generator to compensate the batteries, at worst this gives a consumption of 3,5 l / 100)



But hey, I persist and sign, the solution while waiting for the development of new efficient energy storage technologies, the Tesla S is a fabulous alternative. Within a year or two, recharging and battery exchange stations will be operational, financed by private and state funds.

http://www.enviro2b.com/2010/01/27/bett ... de-demain/

A thermal vehicle without petrol stations to refuel by polluting is limited in its autonomy ... The fuel shortage, happened to many people ... This is how we need stations to refuel, similarly we're going to have electric charging stations. The Tesla needs 45 minutes to refuel 100% or 5 minutes by exchanging its batteries. But soon we will have better ... A few seconds will be enough to fill up our batteries.
http://www.zdnet.fr/actualites/informat ... 794,00.htm
and even more recently
http://www.newgizz.com/articles.html?8e ... ss&start=5

Even in the Senate things are moving!
http://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2009 ... 10651.html

[sen-no-sen]

I saw the documentary you mention "who killed the electric car", and I don't find that it aims to credit the "conspiracy theory", an expression used all the time to discredit people who " question "...

We shouldn't have seen the same.
You interpreted against all the demonstrations of the documentary, I don't really see what you understood ...

So to speak of "conspiracy theory" is a bit of an exaggeration.

Welcome to Les Bisounours.

I saw the same documentary, but I don't think we understood the use of the expression "conspiracy theory"!
At the end of the documentary they cite the various "culprits" of the (momentary) death of the electric car, namely: the manufacturers; consumers, oil companies, government, and ... fuel cells.

Then everything is a question of point of view: for me to classify this documentary (which I find very good) as a conspiracy theory in the sense that "we" (political journalists) currently give to this expression (ie: paranoid delirium, deception) and well is completely exaggerating indeed.
On the other hand if you think that there was an agreement between government and lobbies (automobile, oil tankers) by using the prejudices of the consumers to undermine the electric car, thing well explained in the documentary, well there, we have the same point of view.

Ps: I am not a bisounours, I prefer Alien.

[I Citro]

????? You don't need "electric car experts", but battery experts! And it's been like that for 1 century! electric vehicles, even the Chinese would be able to do if they had the batteries!

But precisely, this is why they are the world leaders in electric vehicles (25 million produced in 2009). This is because they are the first manufacturers of high performance electric motors and they refuse to supply raw materials (rare earths of which Tibet is the world's leading producer) so that other countries cannot compete with them ... When Obama meets The Dalai Lama (this week), it's not to talk about Buddhism ... And that's why the Chinese get angry ... Stop shooting yourself at Walt Disney Coca ...

The electric car has not been "killed", it regularly kills itself when we hear about the exorbitant price of batteries which represent 50% and more of the cost (and weight) of the vehicle !!!!

Let's stop spreading the manufacturers' lies ... In my 106, the batteries represented 2000 €, and weigh 260kg, this does not represent 50% of the price or the weight ...
Already there are PRICE lithium packs of equivalent power for € 6000 and less than 150kg (the 106 is 120V-100Ah).

[I Citro]

At the end of the documentary they cite the various "culprits" of the (momentary) death of the electric car, namely: the manufacturers; consumers, oil companies, government, and ... fuel cells.

The fuel cell which was used as a pretext to pass the pill and corrupt the actors of the EV by reclassifying them in the "hydrogen structure". The result remains more than 10 years stolen from this technology developed with public funds ...

Then everything is a question of point of view: for me to classify this documentary (which I find very good) as a conspiracy theory in the sense that "we" (political journalists) currently give to this expression (ie: paranoid delirium, deception) and well is completely exaggerating indeed.
On the other hand if you think that there was an agreement between government and lobbies (automobile, oil tankers) by using the prejudices of the consumers to undermine the electric car, thing well explained in the documentary, well there, we have the same point of view.
Ps: I am not a bisounours, I prefer Alien.

Ah cool.

[Gébé]

Already there are PRICE lithium packs of equivalent power for € 6000 and less than 150kg (the 106 is 120V-100Ah).

I may be wrong but basically your pack is 120 x 100 = 12Kwh
If these figures are correct * (it's not mine): https://www.econologie.com/l-energie-con ... -3227.html

We're not about to go on vacation with electric cars

* If they are not, or more exactly in the improbable case where it would not be taken into account the efficiency of the heat engine much lower than that of the electric, you multiply by 4 or 5, we do not go very far still....

[pb2488]

Then everything is a question of point of view: for me to classify this documentary (which I find very good) as a conspiracy theory in the sense that "we" (political journalists) currently give to this expression (ie: paranoid delirium, deception) and well is completely exaggerating indeed.
On the other hand if you think there has been a entente between government and lobbies (automotive, oil) using consumer prejudice to undermine the electric car , something well explained in the documentary, well, we have the same point of view.

Pffff ... it's all controversy !!!!
Stop beating around the bush, let's call a cat, a cat:

- Definition of "conspiracy": Secret agreement between several people who prepare an action against someone, against an institution.
- Definition of "conspiracy theory": Interpretation of an event or series of events as being or having been knowingly orchestrated by a group of individuals, while journalism and historical studies highlight other explanatory factors
We are right on top of a typical case: There are interpretable events based on subjective judgments or rather questionable documentaries and in parallel to this, scientific explanations of the type:
http://www.manicore.com/documentation/voit_elect.html
ou

The car of the future for the next 30 years is definitely the plug-in hybrid, not the all electric car. The batteries are too expensive and too heavy. The Syrota report commissioned by the Élysée arrives at the same conclusion as well as several studies.

etc., etc....

Then yes ! this film credits conspiracy theory well.
And even if there would have been a plot against the EV1 in the USA at some point, what does it matter! the transport situation has never been different in any other country in the world, and has always been so the so-called "conspiracy" was unnecessary.
Otherwise (for example) there is a long history that the Chinese government would not commit to spending money to subsidize imported oil to these fellow citizens when they have in their territory enough to generate abundant electricity.
The energy density and the cost of storing electricity is one of the big problems of EV, it is text and clearly what demonstrates scientists and other polytechnicians like Langlois or Syrota or Janco or .... (It is necessary to have a sacred ego to affirm that they are wrong ... or to be blinded by passion can be ... ).
The fact that there are EV enthusiasts on the planet does not prove that there is a conspiracy against.
No need to take others for naive or reject any scientific argument or concrete fact that does not go in the direction of his idea ("preconceived") ... a little bit of rationality damn it !!!
Cdlt