electric horse-drawn tow !!!

[chatelot16]

2 motor AC very well solves the problem of differential

it also helps power control: we can do without a dimmer and settle for a switch that puts the 2 motor in series for the low power, and in parallel for the high power

for energy recovery it must at least be automatic when going downhill: the horse never gets tired of retaining the cart

avoid permanent magnet electric motors because they lose energy as soon as it turns even if they do not grow: they should be disengaged

I prefer DC motors with separate excitation: when there is no excitation, there is no loss: unnecessary clutch

starter or truck engines are my preferred solution: but you have to modify them completely to mount them on bearings: original is all bearings

to be autonomous, counting only on the descent to load will not be enough, it will be necessary to walk in dynamo on the flat too, and it is not sure that it is more profitable than a simple cart and a horse with 4 more legs

the electrical system is much more interesting if it is systematically recharged when stopped

[I Citro]

This is a very interesting subject.
Many good things have been said.
I take the liberty of giving my humble opinion on a few points.
- I do not think that starter motors are intended to operate for more than a few seconds, they are notably devoid of heat evacuation system ...

- I think there are complete axles available. The 4x4 are certainly oversized even a 4x4 panda axle must be a little excessive ...
Perhaps the axles of "golf carts" would be appropriate ... they are produced in large series and exist of origin with electric drives.
Here is one without its electric motor:

I think it's better to forget about chain drives, requiring too much maintenance and "dirty".
The wheel motor is also a possible solution.
You will find interesting models with detailed characteristics at golden motor.
It seems to me that some members of the forum have already ordered from them ...

Last point; the original horse carriages are VERY WELL designed and are THE ideal base to use for this purpose. IMHO.

[chatelot16]

I agree that the transmission by chain is not ideal but it is practical for the development: it is enough to change pinion to change transmission ratio

it makes changing the motor very easy, to try a bigger or smaller one

of course for industrial manufacturing gears in a sealed housing will be better

[chatelot16]

I said modified starter motor

you have to put bearings and provide ventilation, but the main is very solid!

[I Citro]

I said modified starter motor

you have to put bearings and provide ventilation, but the main is very solid!

Well, I don't think ...
The coals, for example, will only last a few hours, for example, and the collector, little more ...
I say this after having had a diesel starter which has been running for barely half an hour at a "sustained" speed ...
Brooms, brush holders were sprayed ...

The changes should therefore also concern these elements, in addition to the machining of real bearing cages ...
Forced air circulation for cooling cannot be improvised ...
In short, in the end, I think it is better to use adequate equipment with known yield curves which will make it possible to choose the ideal product ...
The time saved, the hacks avoided, the money saved, it should not be more expensive for a result "without surprises".

[Grelinette]

A last-minute idea for the axle: an axle of riding mower, micro-tractor (surely stronger), or why not a tiller.

I did not think more about this track, but in the agricultural environment many materials have a solid axle with a mechanics simpler than a car.
Another advantage, perhaps: the mechanics who repair agricultural equipment have a skill and a practical sense perhaps more suited to this type of DIY and can therefore be better advice than a car mechanic.


With an axle of agricultural equipment, it will be necessary to extend the axes, possibly by axes with cardan joints, hence an interesting possibility of deporting the electric motor and placing it in a more convenient place under the coupling.

An axle of a large ride-on mower is light, with an oil tank therefore lubricated. Agricultural equipment is generally solid, not made to go fast, neither is a hitch.
It should stick!

[Grelinette]

An interesting new idea for continuous battery charging without extra effort for the horse. Look at the following sketches showing how this animal traction centerpiece works: the lifter.
The lifting beam is a movable piece of iron or wood, fixed by a central axis to the front of the car. We attach the features. It follows the movement of the horse's shoulders and can therefore avoid injuring it by an excessive play of the collar and the odds and ends. It limits the lateral oscillations of the car. It must be strong so as not to break in the jolts.


(Source: http://attelagepeda.info/voiture-palonnier.html - author Laurence Grard Guenard, whom I thank for her authorization)

So, as soon as the horse walks, this piece performs a pendulum movement which could be usefully recovered to recharge the batteries. Recover this force and all the more interesting as there is a significant leverage effect, and that it would at the same time absorb the pulling jolts when the horse advances, hence increased comfort for the horse and passengers.

With all the information and all the points already addressed on this subject, it would be good now to synthesize and validate certain proposals to keep only the solutions a priori the most coherent and simple to carry out:

1. Electric motor:
- motor-wheel (integrated in the wheels)
- if engine except wheel: 1 central or 1 on each wheel?
- what type of electric motor: truck starter, electric car, lifting machine, etc.
- engine power (to propel up to more than 500 kg)
- engine weight

2. Batteries:
- number, power, ...
- additional weight on board

3. Axle:
- keep the original axle or change it with a vehicle axle (car, micro-tractor, mower, tiller, etc.)
- if 2nd axle parallel to the original axle, what mode of transmission: chain, sprocket, belt, etc.

4. battery charging system:
on wheel (s), transmission, spreader,…?

5. Automation of battery recharging:
- automatic or manual
- permanent or downhill?

6. Starting the auxiliary electric motor:
- Automatic or manual start or both?
- If automatic: upon detection of the traction power supplied by the horse?

etc ...

Do you see other important technical questions?

(I add a final remark: in the case of the project which concerns us, there is also a legal aspect which will have to be studied. Currently in the matter of horse-drawn couplings traveling on public roads, there is no regulation specifies apart from of course respecting the highway code. There is a legal vacuum but it seems that a bill comes to specify all that, in particular concerning the vehicle: stop lights, flashing light, passage to the mines maybe ? ...
For your information, how are electric bikes considered? )

[dirk pitt]

I would just like to emphasize an essential point of theory already mentioned and which comes into contradiction with the following sentence:

An interesting new idea for continuous battery charging without extra effort for the horse.

a classic mistake is to equate movement and energy that can be drawn from movement.
It is not because this or that room moves that we will be able to draw significant energy from it. maybe this piece moves with a very weak energy and that to try to recover some at this level will block it very quickly.
a paper windmill made by your kid turns very quickly in the garden and yet we cannot hope to get a lot of energy from it.

moreover, any energy that one draws from the horse's work to help him at another time will have a negative overall balance. however, it should not necessarily be excluded. This may be a way of smoothing out the necessary peaks of power when climbing.

I would also like to warn about the wheel motors from electric bike or scooter kits which are, I think, not suitable because the cruising speed of the horse-drawn car is around 7 to 10km / h (less uphill) and the performance of such motors at these speeds is poor.
it is absolutely necessary to plan a reduction.

[Grelinette]

Râlâlâ! I thought I had a stroke of genius (no pun intended) with this idea of ​​an energy-producing lifter!

I still think that there are still interesting ideas to find. I return to the subject ...

[the middle]

Hello,
Sometimes you have to let your intuition speak.
Mine: follow the thought of Dirk pit ..
Another thought ... why keep it simple when you can make it complicated.
Another view: I see horses pulling whole trees in the forests ... what energy !!!
Why add batteries ????
It is good to think of the well being of animals, but we must not underestimate their strength ...
The ladybug was created to eat aphids, the draft horse was made by man to work, not to rest
Nothing like practice; there are many associations of horse friends on the internet; suggest your idea, ask for a hitch to loan, and give it a try in the conventional way!
You will see if you need top technique, or a bale of straw .... anyway, ha !, a little story:
In my village, there are two scrap metal collectors, one with a small truck, another with a small horse; in your opinion, to whom I give my scrap metal