State of mind for a viable future

[sen-no-sen]

Man is a complex mixture (just like the affect and the rational in him)
Man has within him:
1) the survival instinct, the notion of individuality, self-centeredness
2) and also altruism, giving, sharing, Love.

Selfishness and altruism are the same phenomenon but taken on different scales.

When Donald Trump launches are slogan "America's first" is it in selfishness (the USA first and whatever happens for the others) or in altruism (to defend - some unequally - 330 million Americans)?

[Janic]

how beautiful faith doubled with utopia.

Can you provide evidence to the contrary?

Can you provide evidence that it is not utopian? No more ! You just have to look behind you, in human history, and that's enough.

Can you provide evidence that the general trend is towards a decline in mentality, a decrease in comfort, an increase in working time?

No more than the reverse, that's why I'm talking about faith, no evidence and that's why we are going into the wall!

I am not saying that negative trends are absent, but objectively in what is the thread of history until today?

OUR technicized societies (new god of the century) have done more to destroy, in all possible ways, than to build.

Of course, this progress is made at the expense of nature and therefore in the long term, if it continues on the same foundations, this progress leads to destruction. LOL, if I may say ....

Well here! Nothing more !
It is utopian to believe that the same causes will not produce the same effects and it has lasted for millennia, millions of years with evolutionists which is even worse. Philosophers, sages of all cultures have failed to change this world and its devastating mentality and it is not us, the little jokes, who will do it better.

* Unless something has escaped me?

Almost everything in this case. It's all well and good (and a natural reflex) to believe in a better future, if not as much to blow up the box, and it is this hope (even utopian) that continues to give hope like the one who falls from 20 floor and which up to the ground floor says "so far i'm still alive and i've been through the hardest so everything is fine !"

[eclectron]

Selfishness and altruism are the same phenomenon but taken on different scales.

You have to express yourself well with words that speak to people.
If one wants to be rigorous, altruism is clever, disguised selfishness.
On the other hand, true Love, which is not attachment, is the absence of expression of the ego, and is indeed a state 2) totally different from 1)
Given the state of the world it seems a little too ambitious to talk about it like that ...

When Donald Trump launches are slogan "America's first" is it in selfishness (the USA first and whatever happens for the others) or in altruism (to defend - some unequally - 330 million Americans)?

As soon as there is exclusion, separation, there is no Love, so for Trump you have your answer
It is obviously only selfishness.

[Exnihiloest]

When Donald Trump launches are slogan "America's first" is it in selfishness (the USA first and whatever happens for the others) or in altruism (to defend - some unequally - 330 million Americans)?

Altruism does not exist. It is for their own satisfaction that altruists act: not helping others would make them themselves uncomfortable. But we are not going to throw a stone at them, they are obviously precious.
As for Trump, it is not selfishness either. In politics in a country, you favor your own people. He says out loud what all politicians do. In America it pleases. In France, saying it would offend moral prudishness.

[eclectron]

By staying focused on the heart of the point of divergence:

It is utopian to believe that the same causes will not produce the same effects

It is foolishness to believe that the same effects will necessarily have the same causes.
In other words, a sustainable system can very well provide a level of comfort comparable to today without the cohort of negative effects inherent in the current system. Particularly linked to debt money and capitalism.
It is just in bad faith to say that comfort and conscience have not progressed over the centuries.

it is not us, the little jokes, who will do it better.

A little fun, that's for sure.
2 little jokes, that's for sure.
Isn't there a quantitative threshold of little jokes where the conclusion is reversed?
On the other hand, what is certain is that with such a preconceived idea as yours, such a defeatism "before fighting", and I would put Sen no sen et ABC2019 nothing is likely to change for the better too.
Defeatism is playing the game of the current system.

It is all well and good (and a natural reflex) to believe in a better future, ... and it is this hope (even utopian) which continues to give hope like the one who falls from the 20th floor and who until RdeC says "so far i'm still alive and i've been through the hardest so everything is fine !"

Because you are in a logic of dominated, resigned, in relation to the subject. look up to see.

[eclectron]

Altruism does not exist. It is for their own satisfaction that altruists act: not helping others would make them themselves uncomfortable. But we are not going to throw a stone at them, they are obviously precious.

Absolutely

As for Trump, it is not selfishness either. In politics in a country, you favor your own people. He says out loud what all politicians do. In America it pleases. In France, saying it would offend moral prudishness.

Trump, by privileging America, dissociates himself from Humanity, it is obviously of the selfishness that he expresses.
Group selfishness but selfishness.without value judgment, just the facts.

[Janic]

janic wrote: This is the utopia to believe that the same causes will not produce the same effects

It is foolishness to believe that the same effects will necessarily have the same causes.

If you step on a nail that will hurt the foot, it is and it remains ce nail which is the cause and no other injury can replace the cause. Don't reverse it.

In other words, a sustainable system can very well provide a level of comfort comparable to today without the cohort of negative effects inherent in the current system.

So you found the grail!

Particularly linked to debt money and capitalism.

Bof!

It is just in bad faith to say that comfort and conscience have not progressed over the centuries.

I did not say that. It's just your point of view. What I say, like others, that you cannot have your cake and eat it at the same time and this comfort has had a human and ecological cost, the effects of which are being felt today. However, consciousness (but what kind?) Could not, most of the time, estimate the consequences of certain choices. Asbestos being an example.

janic wrote: it is not us, the little jokes, who will do it better.

A little fun, that's for sure.
2 little jokes, that's for sure.
Isn't there a quantitative threshold of little jokes where the conclusion is reversed?

Absolutely not ! It would work if it was AI that would decide it, without emotion, but I doubt that it would please, nor be sure that it would really work since determined by men.

On the other hand, what is certain is that with such a preconceived idea as yours, such a defeatism "before fighting", and I would put Sen no sen and ABC2019 in the lot too, nothing is in danger of change for the better.
Defeatism is playing the game of the current system.

We must not confuse, once again, the goodwill wanting to change the world and the possibility that it changes willingly, it is even the opposite. As you can read, I am VGL, would the world change in this direction? NO unless constrained! I am against tobacco, alcohol, even legal drugs, the bidoche and for freedom of conscience in health matters including vaccines. None of these aspects will meet a transforming unanimity and it is not defeatism but realism. So I play the hummingbird with MONTH drops of water and come what may!

janic wrote: It's all well and good (and a natural reflex) to believe in a better future, ... and it is this hope (even utopian) which continues to give hope like the one who falls from the 20th floor and who until RdeC says to himself "so far I'm still alive and I've had the hardest part, so everything is fine!"

Because you are in a logic of dominated, resigned, in relation to the subject. look up to see.

Who do you think you are? You confuse dominated (we all are!) And resigned with fatalism. It was not me who would turn the earth in reverse and so I made up my mind.

[eclectron]

If you step on a nail that will hurt the foot, it is and it remains ce nail which is the cause and no other injury can replace the cause. Don't reverse it.

I'm tired of reading in the future, tell me why I knew you weren't going to understand ...
Thank you, that's it, I remember why I didn't answer you anymore.

[plasmanu]

I predict Janic will install Lilo. It's Google with half the result
https://www.lilo.org/fr/gouttes-eau/

Screenshot_2020-01-19-23-23-12-282_com.android.chrome.jpg (371.43 KB) Viewed 1783 times

I had put all my drops of water on hummingbird (Pierre Rabhi) easy to read the future

[ABC2019]

Selfishness and altruism are the same phenomenon but taken on different scales.

You have to express yourself well with words that speak to people.
If one wants to be rigorous, altruism is clever, disguised selfishness.
On the other hand, true Love, which is not attachment, is lack of ego expression, and is indeed a state 2) totally different from 1)

I begin to understand the reasons for your idealism in relation to society ...