Convert a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump

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izentrop
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Re: Transform a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump?




by izentrop » 30/11/21, 00:56

sicetaitsimple wrote:
Christophe wrote:Bin I have a temperature which is displayed in real time but I do not know where the probe is ......


Are you sure? It surprised me so much that this information is not available that I looked for a notice. It may not be exactly your model, but both inlet and outlet water temperatures are a priori available (parameters "o" and "p", see page 19).

https://www.piscine-market.com/PDF/Manu ... 8%20FR.pdf
This is the NANO ACTION 2020. The instructions on the first page correspond to the nano action 2021, the temperature parameters are not classified the same https://store.poolstar.fr/Media/File/23 ... 4e20960c7c
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Re: Transform a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump




by Christophe » 30/11/21, 11:55

Yes izy, I don't have the same display, mine is a 2 digits ... I don't have the temperature within 0.1 ° C ... you can see it clearly on the photo above where there is marked 37 ° C ...

sicetaitsimple wrote:The current setting which leads you to cycles of "a few minutes", may be very penalizing for the life of your pool heat pump, which was not designed for that. Increasing the circulation flow should go in the right direction from this point of view with longer cycles, remains to be confirmed by checking at the same time that the temperatures remain acceptable.


I'm not sure about the lifespan: it's a Toshiba compressor and thermodynamic water heaters don't necessarily have longer cycles ...

I would have to stopwatch but I have to arrive when the heat pump starts ... not easy! Because if I force the start by raising the set point of the tank thermostat, it is possible but everything is turned upside down (long-term consumption measurements)!

For the increase in speed, yes the temperature will rise less in the heat pump (if that's your logic?) Except that this ALSO risks (especially?) Of lowering the exchanges on the balloon side so in the end it risks increasing faster therefore of decrease cycle times !

Good yapluka try!
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Re: Transform a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump




by izentrop » 30/11/21, 12:20

Christophe wrote:Yes izy, I don't have the same display, mine is a 2 digits ... I don't have the temperature within 0.1 ° C ... you can see it clearly on the photo above where there is marked 37 ° C ...
Even in setup mode? (see picture)

There may be a way to only control the pump if it is useful.
Would the OUT1 or OUT3 output not be made for that? I see that the connection part is not included in the manual (paragraph 11).

I have the impression that the diagram has been simplified compared to the 2020 version: no outlet temperature sensor?

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Re: Transform a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump




by Christophe » 30/11/21, 12:45

I never have a comma! It's like Coluche!

Otherwise..uh OUT3 and OUT1 control the fan and the compressor ...

The fan starts up a few tens of seconds before the compressor and idem when stopped ... this delay may depend on the temperatures?

The fact that the heat pump starts on the flowmeter is perfect in my case since it is the tank thermostat which activates the circulator which creates the flow! No need for an electrical connection between the tank and the heat pump ...

Why make it complicated when it can be simple : Mrgreen:

Note that I had doubts about this operation because I was afraid that it would be necessary to reset the heat pump manually after each stop of the circulator but no, it is automatic ... OUF!

When the circulator is not running, the heat pump goes into error 3

ps: the wiring diagrams were not in the versions I found during the study so it's cool to have them!
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Re: Transform a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump




by izentrop » 30/11/21, 12:55

Christophe wrote:The fact that the heat pump starts on the flowmeter is perfect in my case since it is the tank thermostat which activates the circulator which creates the flow! No need for an electrical connection between the tank and the heat pump ...
Ok, but then the best is for the tank thermostat to be in phase with the set point temperature of the heat pump so that the circulator does not run unnecessarily.
When the heat pump stops when the outlet temperature reaches Tmax, the TH of the tank would have to cut the circulator shortly after, is this the case?

In this case, the tank's TH probe would have to be close to the coil and be adjustable, otherwise add an adjustable one to the heat pump setpoint?
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Re: Transform a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump




by Christophe » 30/11/21, 13:28

Bravo izy you understood what I said several days ago (if see above) ... : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

The tank setpoint must be (ideally very slightly) lower than the maximum temperature of the heat pump (44.4 ° C measured yesterday) ...

If the tank setpoint is too high (like 55 ° C) then the circulator will run 24 hours because the heat pump will not be able to reach this temperature! The heat pump will continue to regulate between 40 and 37 ° C h24 ... for "nothing" ... *

Otherwise I saw that this delta of 3 ° C was configurable between 1 and 10 ° C, 3 by default, that could be a solution to increase the cycle time of the heat pump ...

For your second remark, no, the circulator does not stop until the tank setpoint is reached. Your remark is irrelevant since we will recover the residual heat in the heat exchanger of the heat pump ...and that would not make it possible to relaunch the CAP, see b) and c) below!

So that you understand correctly, there are 2 standby modes of the heat pump and 1 heating mode:

a) Deep standby: circulator OFF, error code E3 (waiting for flow). The CAP does NOTHING except waiting

b) Light standby: circulator ON, compressor OFF, temperature displayed. The heat pump has reached the max. and waits to reach the low setpoint (= T ° max - delta)

c) Heating mode: circulator ON, compressor ON, temperature displayed. The heat pump rises from the low setpoint to the high setpoint.


As I said above: the fan can run in mode c) and b) (delays before and after starting the compressor).

It is clearer ?

Ideally I should measure the duration of phases b) and c) for different pump speeds ...

* it would still be interesting to see up to what maximum temperature it can raise the balloon ...

ps: I switched to high speed (22W instead of 7W since 13:00 pm today) but I have little hope that this will improve the already very good COP ... to be continued!
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Re: Transform a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 30/11/21, 13:43

Christophe wrote:Bravo izy you understood what I said several days ago (if see above) ... : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

Give him time, he is very diminished ... : Mrgreen:
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Re: Transform a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump




by Christophe » 30/11/21, 13:58

To agree on the instructions: https://www.poolex.fr/fr/Download/documentation

It's a bit of a mess with versions and evolutions ...

There are 3 models of Nano at Poolex: Action (heating only), Reversible Action (mine) and Reversible Turbo Action (not including the advantages of the turbo ...)

I saved them in this post: water-pumping-filtration / transforming-a-solar-DHW-tank-into-thermodynamic-water-heater-with-a-small-pool-t17035-30.html # p474868 including that of 2018 with the wiring diagram
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Re: Transform a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump




by Christophe » 30/11/21, 15:08

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:
Christophe wrote:Bravo izy you understood what I said several days ago (if see above) ... : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

Give him time, he is very diminished ... : Mrgreen:


On this subject, obviously, less than YOU! : Mrgreen:

Hey bham!
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Re: Transform a solar DHW tank (or fuel oil) into a thermodynamic water heater with a small swimming pool heat pump




by izentrop » 30/11/21, 16:31

Bravo izy you understood what I said several days ago (if see above) ...
Should be clearer then : Mrgreen:
Christophe wrote:If the tank setpoint is too high (like 55 ° C) then the circulator will run 24 hours because the heat pump will not be able to reach this temperature! The heat pump will continue to regulate between 40 and 37 ° C h24 ... for "nothing" ... *

Otherwise I saw that this delta of 3 ° C was configurable between 1 and 10 ° C, 3 by default, that could be a solution to increase the cycle time of the heat pump ...

For your second remark, no, the circulator does not stop until the tank setpoint is reached. Your remark is of no interest since we will recover the residual heat in the heat exchanger of the heat pump ... and that would not allow the heat pump to be restarted, see b) and c) below!
Because you didn't understand. :x

I proposed to add a thermostat with probe in the thermowell located just above the coil of the balloon (on your map), which would allow to set an independent setpoint for the circulator and thus prevent ...
the circulator will run 24 hours a day because the heat pump will not be able to reach this temperature! The heat pump will continue to regulate between 40 and 37 ° C h24 ... for "nothing" ... *
A cheap one https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001693937592.html
You understood this shots :?: :?:
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