Centralized insulation-central heating outside

[DC]

REALLY COMPLICATED FOR ME! WHO CAN HELP ME MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES?

Data of the problem (s)

The sanitary water is currently distributed in the house I occupy from a single lead pipe which travels uncovered in the cellar and then plunges into the wall on the west gable side under a window which overlooks a terrace not sheltered and joined the room in the basement located under the kitchen and the bathroom at the back of the house. From there, the lead pipe continues with a copper pipe (diam. 15 mm) from which all other sanitary pipes leave (including water heated by a Bulex powered by propane and connected to the external tank. ).

I would like to replace the lead pipe and the copper pipe in 15 mm which follows it by copper pipes (already bought) one of diam 22 mm for cold water and one of 15 mm separate for the supply of Bulex ( which does not admit a flow greater than that which a 15 mm pipe can provide for heating domestic water), so as not to see the flow of hot water collapse when cold water is run in (same original pipe under the kitchen). All this from the initial conduit connected to the meter arriving at the cellar.

1st QUESTION

From the meter (exactly from the non-return valve), what diameter of copper pipe should be provided in order to:
- to supply the boiler (1 pipe diameter ???)
- distribute sanitary water (2 pipes of 22 and 15 mm)
- (r) bring the water from the radiators (2 pipes of 22 mm traveling with the sanitary water towards the back of the house and 2 others of 22 mm running directly through the ceiling of the cellar towards the rooms front of the house: ground floor and two floors)

The cellar is only dug under part of the house and does not communicate with the room under the kitchen and the bathroom at the back of the house, hence this obligatory passage of water from the front of the house connected to the distribution network (cellar) towards the rear, departure of the various domestic water supplies.

I intend to partially or completely transform the "open" terrace into a pergola or even a "hard" double glazed veranda.
The window at the bottom of which the main water supply pipe passes is completely "rotten" and I intend to replace it with a standard opening French door by enlarging the bay in the wall of the dining room downwards. on the terrace.

It is therefore necessary to cut and divert the lead pipe at this location or replace it completely.
1) Either I cut a groove on the inside of the wall flush with the ground over the entire length of the existing pipe (below the window, before and after) and I place the copper pipes there by extending them (towards the cellar in front and the basement kitchen in the back)
2) or I drill a hole in the cellar in the same wall to pass the pipes that travel plated on the other side of the wall near the ceiling in the room under the terrace by isolating them in a box. Another hole already drilled near the entrance to the room under the terrace (near the staircase leading to the garden) then makes it possible to extend the pipes to the room under the kitchen and the bathroom from where all the other pipes.

In option 1) the problem comes from the conflagration of the French window opening onto the terrace (+/- at the same level as the dining room). It is necessary to dig a bleeding either in the tiled floor of the dining room then oblique towards the interior vertical wall of the wall to join the copper junction plunging in the angle of the kitchen towards the basement (complicated) or to dig a bleeding in the wall on the interior side (dining room) at the level of the tiling then the "bend" under the lower level of the frame of the French window at the height of the bay extended to the ground and then go up to join the copper junction plunging into the corner of the kitchen towards the basement (very complicated too).

Advantage in both cases the insulation that the thickness of the wall provides and the proximity of the space heated in winter.

In option 2), no complications BUT it is necessary to insulate the pipes because the room under the terrace overlooks the garden (currently no door) and is not heated. Advantage: if the terrace is fitted out in a closed veranda, the heating can be installed quickly since the pipes to the radiators can be brought directly through the floor of the terrace from the box where the pipes running towards the back of the house travel. under the terrace.

FOLLOWING MY QUESTIONS:

1.1 place the two domestic water pipes (hot 15 mm and cold 22 mm) each insulated by climatubes AND the central heating water inlet and return pipes (22 mm insulated by climatubes) in the same insulated box also) which I have not yet talked about and some of which travel for the same reasons towards the back of the house too.

1.2 idem 1.1 BUT do not insulate the pipes with climatubes and be content with insulating WELL:
- the room under the terrace
French window with double glazing better than wooden door?
Glass brick as good or better than concreting the small lighting bay currently existing towards the garden?)
- the box with the hope that the heat diffusing from the return pipe of the central heating water will be sufficient to prevent the water from freezing in winter in the other pipes especially if the central heating were to be interrupted or that I decide to replace the central heating with another without a radiator.

1.3 How to properly insulate the cabinet?
Project: 4 pipes (2 sanitary + 2 central heating) welded with hard copper brazing conventionally fixed to the wall by entangled necklaces and placed close to each other in an 18 mm plywood tank leaning against the wall angle with the ceiling over the entire length (6-7 m) and supported by brackets.
Vertical face parallel to the wall of the cabinet is screwed into the edge of the upper horizontal plates. and inf. either foldable from top to bottom by hinges arranged at regular intervals (less hermetic seal but possibility to open the box without unscrewing 10 screws).
Gap between the edge of the horizontal planks and the wall closed with polyurethane foam.
Inside face of the boards of the cabinet covered with Frigolithe (WHAT THICKNESS?) And the pipes (individually insulated by climatubes ???) "embedded" in glass wool.

Is it sufficient ??

THANK YOU FOR YOUR OPINIONS AND SUGGESTIONS!

[Philippe Schutt]

obviously lead must be removed entirely. Where is this house?

I find option 2 more judicious because less work and you keep a good accessibility. Putting a door to this room under the terrace should already limit the risk of frost. But also insulate the pipes because I don't see the point of heating this room.

But decide if you keep radiators or not. It would be futile to move them so as not to use them afterwards ...

[Christophe]

Use this: https://www.econologie.com/forums/search.php because we had a similar case a few months ago: https://www.econologie.com/forums/conseils-c ... 10369.html

Read it in detail to get started.

[DC]

Hello Christopher,

Thank you for these 1st tips.
I read in detail the post of Julius87 and I rephrase my questions 1.1 to 1.3 as follows.

In the responses to Julius87's message, I read that the actual thickness of the pipes buried at 1m must exceed 10 cm without defect. What does 10 cm mean?
X cm of glass wool of type N is equivalent to Y cm of extruded polystyrene or Z cm of another insulator ??
My pipes will be hung on the wall in a concrete room above (under the terrace and laterally).

My question about insulation to limit caloric losses is:

What better insulates water pipes?

a) 40 cm (-8 cm of internal groove) of a brick wall exposed west but which may be protected one day if a veranda (or at least pergola) is built on the current terrace

b) an 18 mm plywood box insulated on the inside (1, 2, 3 cm? Frigolithe and Climatube on the pipes or no Climatube and filling of glass wool around the grouped pipes?) placed in an unheated room under the terrace which access will be ideally closed either:

1. by a glass door in the access bay (double glazing OK?) + 2nd window (double glazing) for the 2nd small bay
2. by a classic wooden door (thickness?) + 2nd small bay condemned by concrete blocks (or glass blocks)?


For the thermometer indicated, wouldn't a simple thermometer graduated up to 100 ° be sufficient for temperature measurements of hot water pipes by placing the "balloon" of mercury or alcohol in contact with the pipe (+ magnifying glass if necessary)?
The digital thermometer is certainly a professional quality tool but I am obliged to limit my expenses to the tightest because all these works, I do them at lost cost because I am a tenant and the owner does not plan to sell or intervene financially without increasing the exceptionally low rent which it has blocked in return since the start of the occupation of the premises (18 years old, it is too much to back down, I have already given a lot ...).

I intended to connect to the boiler (if compatible) a room thermostat (already purchased) with interior sensor well placed in the building. Is it compatible with thermostatic valves (already purchased) placed on all radiators? Why should you always leave a normal tap?

I do not know if I will get there but I would like to do as many things myself (for the reasons mentioned above), I am in the process of completing the connection of the radiators to the three floors and I bought from occasion an oil boiler with coupled boiler, expansion tank and circulator), I am looking for a standard connection plan hence my question about the diameter of the pipes from the supply of running water.

I will ask this question as well as on the pecuniary interest of converting the burner of the oil boiler by a pellet burner ([/ url] http://www.alterenerg.com/html/converti ... ui-no.html [url]) in another message as advised.

Thank you again for your intervention, I live alone and am not frequently helped and it is always a pleasure especially since my initial professional training is unrelated to technology and construction.

Bonne journée.

DC (Liège Belgium)

[dedeleco]

Your information on your real situation:

all these works, I do them at lost cost because I am a tenant and the owner does not plan to sell or intervene financially without increasing the exceptionally low rent which he has blocked in return since the beginning of the occupation of the premises ( 18 years old he's too tard (?) to reverse, I have already given a lot ...).

causes the reaction that I would have in your place, improve the heating by reducing heat losses as simply as possible, but simple, even DIY, not optimal, removable when you leave, because it is the owner who must pay normally, and when I leave, in your place there would be nothing left of my oversimplified and inexpensive simplistic insulation !!
Legally I hope that you have an inventory report, old, showing this lack of insulation with precision !!
Otherwise, make one with signed photos, with the owner (recommended for any rental contract).
if you make such an improvement, you will have no proof that it was not the owner who paid, and you risk with a vicious owner, let him take it for himself, and increase your rent!! without being able to answer legally, since there will be no proof of your work and expenses, convincing legally, with at least years of procedures to pay lawyers and legal experts, even if you have everything to prove it !!
[/B]

So do a report of the places before any work, with photos !! Crucial !!
Then do an efficient simplistic work but unusable by the owner because it can be dismantled when you leave, leaving the same as the inventory report !!


To insulate, the principle is to block the movement of air by anything (no metal) in pockets less than 1 cm thick, as bubble wrap for packaging or wrapped greenhouses around (18mm bubbles which I indicated the reference on greenhouse econology or unpretentious solar collector) !!
On the boiler, keep all the old, burner, radiators, etc. to put it back when you leave, identical, even if it works badly, because it will be normal wear in over 18 years !!

Even if the rent is low, at least in France, the owner must ensure the necessary renewal on large equipment normally worn and to change !!

So beware, reports, invoices of your work, etc., and make the simplest and cheapest that you will take with you, the day you leave.
With your rent over xx years, you will have paid the house to your landlord, without owning anything, so do not leave anything more than legal !!

Before the pellets, you can burn in a stove, all wood and plants free that I see abandoned everywhere in France or burnt in the open air, with my neighbors who smoke me for days !!

[dedeleco]

Why should you always leave a normal tap?

so that the boiler does not find itself heating nothing, and therefore overheating to death without circulation which cools its water !!

In your place there would be no thermostatic valves to give to the owner, but simply manual closing of the radiator valves of unused rooms, or balancing of the network by adjusting these valves more or less, which is more than enough as a tenant with a well placed room thermostat !! !!