Complete file on rainwater recovery

[Christophe]

Formalized since the last water law and the introduction of a tax credit, the recovery and use of rainwater is progressing in France even if some obstacles still remain to be lifted. Pending next regulatory advances, Actu-environnement.com returns to this technique.

Context and challenges
Rainwater characteristics
Regulation
Installation sizing
Activities Funding
Situation with our European neighbors
Some French experiences

To read here: http://www.actu-environnement.com/ae/do ... pluie.php4

They talk about financing but by no means economic profitability ... in certain regions I doubt that it will be profitable (especially in renovation) ...

Obviously a tank for the garden goes without saying ... but for the whole house it is discussed ...

[little sparrow]

Bonjour,

... economic profitability ...

the main objective of a rainwater recovery installation is not defined in terms of "profitability" ... !!!
once again, we must not delude ourselves about the issues .. !!
the "depreciation" is to be considered, but it is if the "profitability" that one seeks, there are other more suitable means .....!

in some regions I doubt that it will be profitable ...

it is not a question of region ...

Obviously a tank for the garden goes without saying ... but for the whole house it is discussed ...

"invest" in a install buried for the garden is the worst solution .. it's not even a question of depreciation ... it's net loss !!!

it is precisely through sanitary uses that we can best absorb our install .. !!


cordially

[loop]

Hello

A rainwater recovery tank has at least two advantages:

No space wasted by a bulky tank with questionable aesthetics

Keeps water stored away from light and at a suitable temperature

One could even imagine drawing calories with a heat pump, in this water which would capture the heat of the ground, but hey, that is another subject, heat pumps are not econological by definition, because of the technique of electric production.

I am fortunate to have an old large capacity underground tank at the foot of an old barn. I feed it with downspouts, and this water allows me to water the garden in summer. It's almost a waste, as the water is so clear.

Nothing would stop communities from investing in common reservoirs, which would supply a secondary network of non-potable water. Again, would economic issues and lobbies have the last word?

A+

[Christophe]

the main objective of a rainwater recovery installation is not defined in terms of "profitability" ... !!!

Well there has to be a gain somewhere otherwise it will always remain marginal as a market and therefore limited to a few green ... Although the overall ecological balance of a facility for individuals also remains unclear... but like you Pierrot you are pro you must know a little more on this point. It interests me greatly.

What worries me most about the costs: pumping (electricity and wear of the pump) and filtration as well as the health risk.

An installation entered at 20 000 € I don't mind but some share there must be a gain because if it is to pay its "useful" m3 (depreciation + running cost) more expensive than that of the network what is the interest?

By cons for the garden, industrial or community I am 100% for ... but the scales are not the same ...

[little sparrow]

Bonjour,

Nothing would prevent communities from investing in common reservoirs, which would supply a secondary network of non-potable water

this is what should be done everywhere ... "to do well" ..
but as the "health authorities" are very reluctant and / or completely offload all responsibilities (shame on them!) if a mayor still wants (for example) to supply the toilets of the sports complex .. .. well that in cools more than one, who generally abstain .. (understandable ..)

Again, would economic issues and lobbies have the last word?

well ... of course !!
when we read on the "opinion" of the DGS of March 2006 that:

... the use of “potable” quality water
is Requirements for all domestic uses ...

namely that "domestic" means:

Currently the concept of "domestic use" covers:
- food uses: drink, food preparation, washing dishes;
- uses related to personal hygiene: sink, shower, bath, washing clothes;
- other uses in the home: excreta disposal, washing of floors and vehicles, watering
vegetables, pool water.

and that we then read, on the "opinion" of the CSHPF of September 2006, the almost same sentence, with the exception of the last term used which is transformed into:

1- considers, from a health point of view:
> - that, for food uses (drink, food preparation, washing dishes, etc.) and
personal hygiene practices, the use of water that meets the quality criteria set by the
articles R.1321-1 and following of the CSP is compulsory ;

and the term "mandatory" is underlined at the outset in this text !!
(attention !!, reminder!: this is only an opinion , and in no case a regulatory basis .. !! )

there is enough to ask serious questions about the phenomenon of "evolution" proposed by these administrations ..., in the pay of the lobbies ... which are currently leading the game on the new decrees, as much for the rainwater only for the ANC .. !!!

"domestic" rainwater does not interest them at all since it escapes them completely ... !!
on the other hand, the collection / transport / (collective) treatment of rainwater, the ANC (non-collective sanitized) and the "re-use" (reuse of treated wastewater) ... there they are thoroughly into it !! ... imagine the "market" there behind ...
(no, by the way ... for all those who don't follow all this very closely .., I think you can't even imagine .. !! ... so much it goes beyond the idea that we can s 'do it ... !!)

business is business .....

@ Christophe,

(postage problem solved .. you were good ..)

we can talk about economy without necessarily considering "profitability" ...
for me, the "profitability" of a good installation is real when the uses which are granted to it are domestic, as widely as possible, based on the aspects .. et financial et ecological industrial printing process et qualitative ...
this is all that really embodies this notion of "profitability" ...
if we consider only the financial side ... we will always be on a distorted result and "appearance" not interesting ...

the ecological balance sheet may be vague, but nevertheless very positive !!
> saving on resources
> saving of heavy work
> no "distribution" (networks)
> no "nega-liters" (colossal losses of treated water!)
> no chemical treatment
> naturally soft water (with its advantages ..)
> impact on health (long term)
> phenomenon of "plot retention"
> natural undisturbed water cycle for those in ANC.
> etc ...

it's already really interesting no ... !! ?

technical side:
the pump, with a good overpressure tank, it turns little!
so> little electricity too ..!
a good pump is more expensive but made to last ... !!
over 15 years, it is better to have a good pump (repairable) at 1 €, than 400 4st price pumps (disposable) with more trouble ....

Heuuuu... you know installs at 20 € .. !! ??
help mom ..!

he ho .. 'don't mess around either ... !!
if you are offered a domestic install at this price .., flee !!

we can settle a complete installation in complete autonomy for excellent water quality less than 8000 € ...
concerning the quality and the price of the network water ... in 5 or 10 years .... we will talk about it again !!!

PS: as a reminder .. I am not a "pro" ..!


cordially

[chatelot16]

for pumps I have small pumps which are sold new at 50 euros: but I did not even buy them: I found them at a metal merchant one day a DIY store threw customer feedback that there don't want to repair ...

low-end pumps repair very well: no need to look for more expensive

[Philippe Schutt]

in the best of cases, it can be used to water the garden, since you have to declare at the town hall as soon as this water goes down the drain, and there you will be taxed at a flat rate and expensive enough to be a deterrent.
in some cities, like Strasbourg, there is only a network of sewers where rainwater also passes. The volume processed would drop and yet the bill would increase ... look for the error

[little sparrow]

Bonjour,

today's pumps are no longer the pumps of 20 years ago, like everything else ...
it is no longer made to last ..! , do not forget that we are in the air of the "disposable" .. !! , alas ...
now, it always costs more to repair than to buy new !! , with the added inconvenience ...
for a good domestic installation, I would never recommend a pump label at 50 € .........
but hey ... everyone has their own choices ...

since it is necessary to declare in town hall as soon as this water goes to the sewer, and there we will be taxed at a flat rate and expensive enough to be dissuasive.

only in the case where we did not take the trouble to install a secondary meter for rainwater ...
(now mandatory for new installations ...)

The volume processed would drop and yet the bill would increase ... look for the error

wrong!
"rainwater" (direct) can no longer be discharged to the sewer, but if we use this rainwater in the house, it becomes "wastewater", and discharged to the sewer as such ...
if we use 100% city water at home, we pay a sanitation tax on 100% ...
if you use 70% city water (at the main meter) and 30% rainwater (at the secondary meter) at home, you pay a sanitation tax on 100% ....
there are no mistakes ... !!!
therefore, the volume of rainwater would drop in the sewer network, but the amount of sanitation tax remains the same .. !!!

watch out for confusion ... !!
because rainwater is not taxed, let it be said !!

in the best of cases, it can be used to water the garden

rather in the worst case .. !!!

cordially

[fthanron]

Hello,

From the various readings of the subjects that I have been able to carry out, I conclude that for the health of all, the installation of a rainwater recovery system in order to use it as a drink would be more than largely profitable ... but it is prohibited in France it seems to me ...
There are times when Vive la France leaves me a bitter taste! O)

@+

[Philippe Schutt]

"rainwater" (direct) can no longer be discharged into the sewers

I can not say for new construction, which remains the minority of the building.
extract from the city site:
"Most of the network is unitary, with wastewater and runoff being collected in the same pipe."