Treatment (enamelling?) Of a balloon heat exchanger?

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bolt
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by bolt » 14/12/07, 22:21

Hello

citro wrote: If you want to cover a conductive metal, with another conductive metal, you can make a metalization.
For example, the 1 Cent, 2 Cent and 5 cent € uro coins are pieces of common scrap metal (which rust) and which are covered with copper (a few microns).


covering the scrap with a thin layer of another metal does not certainly protect this scrap when it bathes in a conductive liquid

the case of coins, as explained, is absolutely not made to fill your wallet with water (only one liquid at a time : Mrgreen: )

Christophe, for your tank, especially not copper, because it will serve as a cathode and the iron will make the anode
and as the anode disappears : Cry:

in the electric cumulus tanks, the inside is enamelled to reduce the surface which must serve as a cathode for the magnesium anode:
a large anode compared to a small cathode will last longer than the reverse

if the cumulus was not enamelled, the magnesium anode would only last a few months and more
to note : cathode anode makes a battery, but only if they are in contact (tight screwing or welding)

magnesium is well suited for cumulus to Hot water

zinc is well suited for cold water, but especially not for hot water, it seems that it does the opposite effect

citro wrote:Your problem is if I understand correctly to want to treat the inside of the spiral tube which plays the role of exchanger.
How can you control that the treatment is correct ???


thread a not too fine magnesium wire

as long as there is magnesium left, your iron pipe will be under protection
but check often enough that there is left because if the iron is bare, it will make a large cathode and the magnesium will melt quickly enough

to note: in a cumulus, the interior enamelled coating is almost null in its anti-rust functionality if it is not accompanied by the magnesium anode and that moreover this anode is in good contact with the cumulus iron ( not only deposited at the bottom and resting on the insulating enamel)

all that because any coating has defects or micro-cracks, so if the iron is anode compared to another metal present in the area or itself (never homogeneous iron flow), the stitching at the fault location is quick and can go very quickly

on the other hand, during an assembly with a magnesium anode, it is as if the iron is too busy serving as a magnesium cathode, that it forgets to serve as an anode for itself, but be careful, do not use stainless steel because then the iron will turn its attention to stainless steel and melt

bolt
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by Cuicui » 14/12/07, 23:46

Christophe wrote:There is no need to reserve ECS, everything goes "direct".
How long did it take to be "puffed" and on which parts?

Can you get enough hot water from the tap with this system?
With me the water is acidic, the corrosion was done in 7 or 8 years.
For your exchanger, if you were to dry the interior and pass a can of Rustol ...
Oops, no, I forgot that your DHW was circulating in the exchanger.
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by Christophe » 15/12/07, 08:41

Thank you Bolt for precision, I mixed iron, galvanized, copper and brass ... so if I understand correctly am in shit? : Cheesy:

Cuicui wrote:Can you get enough hot water from the tap with this system?


Well when the ball is hot (40 ° C at the bottom it's about the set temperature of the aquastat which opens the heated floors) yes of course!

But there is still a drawback to this assembly (in addition to the pile of shit effect of course and corrosion): the variation in the temperature of the water: as soon as you open the tap, it is very hot at the start (volume stored in the wood heat exchanger) to cool down and then achieve equilibrium. In the shower it's a bit annoying because it means having to re-adjust the T ° at the tap at each "wash cycle" : Mrgreen: For kk1 who would soap when the water flows it would not be a problem but it is not my case.

I made this system to be in the "continuity" of the principle of the solar buffer which itself does not store water either (except the volume of the exchanger). Thus the water is preheated by the solar buffer (currently around 9 ° to 20 ° C) and "on" heated by the wood.

Now if this poses corrosion problem I will have to review the assembly and make a "normal" assembly :( by supplying the wooden tank with solar energy. The downside is that much of the solar preheating will likely go into the balloon losses.

Is there a way to measure if there is a "stack effect"?
Indeed, copper, iron and brass are always separated either by braided pipes or by PER ... except in 2 places:

a) brass solenoid valve on Galva
b) union connection of the circulator
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by Chatham » 15/12/07, 10:11

Christophe wrote:
Chatham wrote:As far as I know there is an original sacrificial anode already at the exchanger ... At my parents who have a solar water heater (with electrical resistance for winter) for 30 years, the steel tank is origin, exterior appearance like new (hard water) ...


Does the exterior aspect matter little?
It must be the same type of gear, at the time there was no bcp manufacturer of solar (the ball dates from 1979).

Damn I didn't know that ... but hey it's on the "heating" circuit so it's not very important if there is no more galva ... unless you are talking squarely about the complete tube and not only of the galva layer? : Shock:


No in this case when I was talking about the galva it is the complete pipe, the galva (zinc) is only there to protect the steel from rust (but when it is "consumed" it is finished), c This is also how the hulls of steel boats are protected from rust: by choupage (projection of liquid zinc), or with a paint heavily loaded with zinc (eg: dox anode), however to protect electrolysis, in addition to zinc or magnesium anodes which will be consumed in place of steel, all this because the different metals have a different electric potential: the one that is electropositive eats the one that is less so, e.g. putting aluminum and copper in contact in a conductive humid environment, the aluminum will be eaten at full speed ...

For the old tank of my parents' solar water heater (white cylinder, insulator not visible), it really has nothing to do with your material which has an "industrial" aspect.
Note that the water heats to ~ 80 ° C in summer
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by Cuicui » 15/12/07, 10:30

Christophe wrote: (volume stored in the wood exchanger)

: Shock: Do you mean that the sun only preheats the DHW and that a wood heating does the complement?
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by Christophe » 15/12/07, 13:11

Yes pkoi? What is shocking about this? Solar is also used to heat the house.

Do you think an electric supplement is better than wood? : Shock:

But if you just watched 30 seconds the scheme you would understand better ... I wonder pkoi I make you beautiful diagrams if you do not look at them : Cry:
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by Cuicui » 15/12/07, 13:42

Christophe wrote:Yes pkoi? What is shocking about this? Solar is also used to heat the house.

I did not think of an electric backup. I just find it unfortunate that in winter your solar installation does not directly give you enough hot water (today, a little sun here, 1000 l of water at 43 °, enough to last 3 days). I find it curious the idea of ​​using the same buffer tank as both a source of hot water (DHW) and lukewarm water (heated floor). Was it by chance not designed by a polytechnician? : Mrgreen:
Beast question: what happens in the event of a power failure?
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by Chatham » 15/12/07, 16:09

Christophe wrote:Yes pkoi? What is shocking about this? Solar is also used to heat the house.



Mouais, in winter by 0 ° and with a sun as weak as rarely visible the solar heating does not heat anything at all except small in the south of France where there are many sunny days, besides in winter the heater my parents' solar water is cut ... So if I understand correctly, your solar panel is heated with wood and you heat the atmosphere : Mrgreen:
Also note that domestic water at less than 60 ° is not recommended because of the development of legionella bacteria, when with underfloor heating water, in principle it should be at ~ 30 ° C ...
I don't really understand your installation.
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by Cuicui » 15/12/07, 16:50

Chatham wrote: in winter at 0 ° and with a sun as weak as rarely visible the solar heating does not heat anything at all

If, it heats anyway, I find that today it has done rather well.
With a little sun we have lukewarm water, it's better than nothing. Like Christophe, you can support with a wood fire.
In the stoves, I burn logs. To replenish hot water with the recuperator of the large fireplace (when there is no sun for more than 3 days), we put branches and also the fuel brought by the factor.
The ideal would be to connect a boiler on the stove which is currently burning all day and thus help maintain the DHW reserve, it is an installation that I have not yet done, the configuration of the house does not lend itself well to an installation that operates as a thermosiphon.
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by pef » 15/12/07, 22:44

And prq do not modify the tank to put a stainless steel exchanger with a plate to make it removable?
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