paneling and insulating thin?

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r2d2
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paneling and insulating thin?




by r2d2 » 23/03/17, 19:08

Hi everybody

I wanted to put paneling inside my veranda on the common wall between veranda and living room, however, I wanted to take advantage of the opportunity
during the installation of the paneling to "slide" between the wall and the battens which will support the paneling a thin insulation. (5mm)
I hesitate between the cork (5mm) and polistyrene in the same thickness.
in this veranda in summer it is "40" in winter we freeze ... but the worry is not there ... it is rather, to avoid a bit of heat loss
in winter from the house to the veranda.
your opinion ?
please
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izentrop
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Re: paneling and thin insulation?




by izentrop » 23/03/17, 19:36

No certification by CSTB. Studies have already been carried out 5 mm of thin insulation is equivalent to 5 mm of glass wool. Suffice to say is useless.
Worse, as it is waterproof, the condensation cannot be evacuated, the wood can rot.
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Re: paneling and thin insulation?




by r2d2 » 23/03/17, 19:41

house from the 50s, house therefore not isolated at all!
pvc paneling then? a thickness of cork or polystirene ... of 5 mm between ... right?
again I am not looking for insulation with thermal resistance of "3.85 or 4" ..
but since I put this paneling, pvc or wood, why not put something between wall and paneling?
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Re: paneling and thin insulation?




by izentrop » 23/03/17, 20:21

It would take 10 cm of glass wool or polyurethane and that requires making a connection with the openings. If you care about thin insulation, surround it with 2 airtight air knives http://www.toutsurlisolation.com/Choisi ... lant-mince
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Re: paneling and thin insulation?




by izentrop » 24/03/17, 09:45

There is interest in taking care of the insulation, the cost of heating will increase and it is still not so complicated with modern means.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh92bQMXDDI
I applied this method in my room to the not straight walls of 1920.
I put paneling in place of the placo. Panel clips fixed with 9.5 mm self-tapping sheet metal screws.
For connection to windows: window sill in raw wood. I replaced the radiator pipes with PER and here it is:
IMG_5098.JPG
You need a screwdriver with the brake set to minimum so as not to screw up the screw thread. I already did like that for the attic ceiling 15 years ago and it never changed : Wink:
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Re: paneling and thin insulation?




by Did67 » 24/03/17, 10:21

Insulating the veranda is like insulating the house from the outside; there. It is still very interesting to keep the thermal inertia. I would not give up on this idea so quickly. The thermal question should not be reduced to the sole question of heating. We must also think about comfort in summer ...

Then it's not just convection. A house also loses calories by radiation. And there, thin insulators are effective.

Now, in fact, thin insulators are not the panacea that pubs promise. I have some in the attic that I have fitted out with enormous space constraints, so no choice. It does isolate all the same, not to say the opposite. But it is not perfect.
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Re: paneling and thin insulation?




by izentrop » 24/03/17, 11:07

Did67 wrote:Insulating the veranda is like insulating the house from the outside; there.
Outside the wall of the house but sheltered, even if at night the temperature is close to the outside, we can manage it like inside.
Did67 wrote:A house also loses calories by radiation. And there, thin insulators are effective.
Provided the 2 air knives http://www.toutsurlisolation.com/Choisi ... ince#isom3
Otherwise count the thickness as equivalent to a glass wool. I have the technical report GS 20 from CSTB on an old hard drive. It is no longer online, there is just this information http://www.cstb.fr/archives/webzines/ed ... point.html
Other condition
The reflective products used as an under-roof screen are evaluated by a Technical Assessment. The use in screen under roof requires:

either a ventilation on the underside,
or a high water vapor permeance of the screen (HPV screen).

Conclusion: Before completing your thin insulation already installed in the under-roof screen from below, make sure that it has a high permeability to water vapor (HPV) in order to avoid any condensation. The risks of damage due to condensation are very significant.
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Re: paneling and thin insulation?




by Did67 » 24/03/17, 11:32

izentrop wrote:
Did67 wrote:Insulating the veranda is like insulating the house from the outside; there.
Outside the wall of the house but sheltered, even if at night the temperature is close to the outside, we can manage it like inside.


The difference is that the "mass", which stores energy and smooths out variations, is either inside the "insulated box" (exterior insulation) or outside (interior insulation). I reason in relation to the house.

And that, for a perfectly identical level of insulation (same energy flow which crosses for a given temperature difference), changes everything with regard to comfort.

In both cases, the heating will consume the same.

But in one of the cases (ITE), due to the conserved inertia, the variations are smoothed. And in summer, the house keeps its freshness, in particular. The calories that pass through the wall are absorbed by the wall and the temperatures rise little ...

In the other (ITI), the inertia is lost and the temperature variations are significant: the air has only a ridiculous specific heat, so a few calories which pass through the envelope raise the temperature.

To identify this inertia, a little more complex calculations are needed. This is not a characteristic of the insulation. This results from the "mass" kept - or put - in the isolated enclosure.

We can verify it very simply: two identical plastic or glass bottles, placed in the sun; one "empty" (of liquid, therefore full of air); the other full of liquid. The capacity of the wall to transmit calories is the same. A bottle will be very cahude very quickly: no mass to absorb the calories that come in; the other will heat up much less (the mass of water absorbs calories; it heats up slowly and little). Of course, for a house, it's less extreme. But the principle remains.

This question of thermal inertia (the question of heat effusiveness should also be added) is very poorly explained, and often passed over in silence (including by professionals, many of whom do not master the subject - including some architects ; I had a long discussion with the people who take care of the construction of the house of my son, who defended beaks and nails the opposite; for them it is the same - wrongly! Any thermician will confirm)
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Re: paneling and thin insulation?




by izentrop » 24/03/17, 12:02

Even professionals install this kind of insulation, it does not guarantee efficiency.
Found a technical opinion accepted by CSTB. Uplifting ... not sure there were others afterwards http://www.cstb.fr/pdf/atec/GS20-U/AU080131.pdf
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Re: paneling and thin insulation?




by r2d2 » 24/03/17, 13:53

here is a capture which explains much more! (below)

in fact I am limited by the thickness between the wall and the door sill of the veranda, no more than 3 cm!
the primary goal was, I repeat, to "decorate" the wall between the veranda and the wall of the house which overlooks the living room!
I said to myself, I'm going to put some paneling, why not put an insulating film?
but to read you .... do not put anything! since I don't have the rib for .... directly the paneling on the wall then?
if that's it ... wood paneling, laminate or pvc? ... thank you
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