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electric car and transport, the point 2010 start

published: 25/01/10, 12:47
by Christophe
A few days ago I asked the question Pierre Langlois (expert in "defossilized transport", I like this term) of a possible marketing shortly (2011-2012) of an electric car with an "acceptable" price and performance.

That is to say a price similar to a thermal car of the same size (+ 20% max) and at least 100 km of autonomy. I ask no more!

Pierre is notably the author of Transport 21 magazine webzines. To read really to be updated on the evolutions.

Here is his answer (in US $, as he is from Quebec I prefer to specify it)

Bonjour Christophe

If we judge by the price of the iMiev which comes out this year in America and Europe, it is a subcompact at 48 $ US, therefore almost triple a traditional car.

The problem with all-electric cars is that they have an unnecessarily large battery. In America 75% of people do less than 65 km per day and 65% of people do less than 50 km per day. In Europe people still travel fewer kilometers, on average. So constantly dragging a battery that gives a range of 160 km is expensive ($ 20 per 000 km of range for an intermediate car).

Better a plug-in hybrid with a 50 km battery in all-electric mode and to add a fuel generator that will cost less than $ 4. We then save more than $ 000 and still do 15% of our km on electricity.

For example, the Chevrolet Volt should sell for US $ 40 at the end of 000 and be able to drive 2010 km in all-electric mode on a battery recharge. And it's a mid-size car, not a subcompact. An iMiev of the same size would sell for more than $ 65 US.

The car of the future for the next 30 years is definitely the plug-in hybrid, not the all-electric car. The batteries are too expensive and too heavy. The Syrota report commissioned by the Élysée reaches the same conclusion, as do several studies.

Personally, I bought myself a non-pluggable Prius 2010, which I will have transformed into a plug-in hybrid in 3 or 4 years when the efficient Li-ion batteries will be cheaper. My average consumption will drop to less than 2 liters / 100 km.

Hoping that these few thoughts will be useful to you.

Sincerely


Pierre Langlois, Ph.D.
physicist: consultant / author

www.planglois-pca.com


In fact Pierre defends, with a lot of common sense, the concept of the plug-in electric car with range extender: it is the concept of Cleanova that ... Renault does not want. Although I am not sure that the cleanova is pluginable but it would be really easy to set up!

Renault is currently "concentrating" on 100% electric vehicles (to move on to something else after the failure in 2-3 years?) ... Renault doesn't give a damn about us but "we" want more ...

published: 25/01/10, 13:10
by Remundo
It is a good analysis by Mr Langlois.

For me, for a typical use in Europe of the individual car, the ideal is a series hybrid with 50 km batteries, a template of Citroën ZX or R19.

@+

published: 25/01/10, 13:29
by Christophe
Yes, a clear, precise and above all short and well argued analysis!

In fact your ideal = Prius 3 pluginable or the 2 or the 1 hacked :)

Although I am not sure that they do 50 km in full electric ...

published: 25/01/10, 13:42
by camille1972
Bonjour.
Personally, it is the volt that I look forward to. Even if its version 1 will not be a high-end in terms of quality and recycling of the battery, this concept is interesting.

published: 25/01/10, 14:26
by Remundo
The Prius are very weakly hybridized ...

I have heard of a few km in pure electric, and still less than 50 km / h.

My ideal is the Kangoo Elect'road because I tinker often, and in the countryside, vans are very useful.

By city car, the deceased Cleanova were fine, although a little heavy (because on large scenic or kangoo chassis).

You said that Renault makes fun of the world, in fact, it produced the Kangoo Elect'road in series, at the time with Ni Cd batteries and a small thermal engine. it worked so well with little maintenance and fuel that they stopped everything. :|

At the time, I believe that a certain Carlos G was R&D director of the group. :P

published: 25/01/10, 14:26
by rico22290
There is another small problem that you do not take into account is the amount of CO2 required to manufacture a vehicle whether it is thermal, hybrid, hydrogen or all electric.
The batteries are extremely polluting.
If we take everything into consideration we return to the good old cart drawn by a good old horse.
I think of it more and more elsewhere. : Lol:

published: 25/01/10, 14:27
by Remundo
camille1972 wrote:Bonjour.
Personally, it is the volt that I look forward to. Even if its version 1 will not be a high-end in terms of quality and recycling of the battery, this concept is interesting.

Hi Camille,

can the volt be sold in Europe ... without rental of batteries, at an acceptable cost and before 50 years : Lol:

published: 25/01/10, 14:36
by Christophe
rico22290 wrote:If we take everything into consideration we return to the good old cart drawn by a good old horse.
I think of it more and more elsewhere. : Lol:


Hey you who seeks to take stock, are you sure it is interesting canasson?

Because if you do as many km with your horse a day as with your petrol car, it will be worse ... because animal (muscular) energy has a rather bad yield (20%) and that this yield is based on food production that consumes petroleum ... and I'm not talking about the maintenance time, premises ... etc etc necessary for a horse.

Do not forget that a small car of 50 hp is equivalent to 50 real horses in terms of average power on a working day! Look at a highway and imagine the area needed?

Nah, the fundamental problem is that we have become (we have been given back?) Too MOBILE ... under a pseudo ideological discourse to the con started during the glorious 30s of my 2 of the style "The car c ' is freedom "and" Freedom for all "...

Here are some figures on the pollution (at least on CO2) of the electric car: https://www.econologie.com/forums/voiture-el ... t7716.html
et https://www.econologie.com/forums/mitsubishi ... t6280.html

published: 25/01/10, 15:41
by oiseautempete
Remundo wrote:The Prius are very weakly hybridized ...

I have heard of a few km in pure electric, and still less than 50 km / h.



only 2km in pure electric ... but much more with an extension kit sold in the USA ...

published: 25/01/10, 16:24
by I Citro
: Mrgreen: Excellent presentation by Pierre LANGLOIS, as always.

I share it in these broad lines with the detail close that I find the prius badly designed to make a plugin.

Indeed, its electric motor is not sized to move it over 50kmh ...
In addition, its petrol engine is not designed on a rational architecture for my taste.

I campaign, within Mobil'éco, for the extreme hybrid vehicle so the basic principle lies in 100% electric traction.
The electrical supply being, if necessary, from a generator ...