Economic Living River boat electric propulsion

Cars, buses, bicycles, electric airplanes: all electric transportation that exist. Conversion, engines and electric drives for transport ...
nevada
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Economic Living River boat electric propulsion




by nevada » 16/12/08, 21:23

Am I in the right subject? I hope so.
I have been pursuing since 3 years the construction of an economic electric powerboat. Along with the physical construction of the boat (10 x 4.20m which is a big piece) I drove the realization of electric propulsion.
Wasted time?
Maybe, many electric drives exist on the market and I would have enough 2 checks of 4000 euros to be equipped with the 2 propulsion that I need .... (without batteries)
If my subject is interesting, tell me
Thanks for reading me
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Gregconstruct
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by Gregconstruct » 16/12/08, 21:29

Hi and welcome to the forum,

You should give a little more info on this achievement and if you have pictures it will be nice.

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by minguinhirigue » 17/12/08, 11:44

It's great as a project, we want more !?
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nevada
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The genesis of the project




by nevada » 17/12/08, 14:12

I started sailing in 1965 river with my parents. I particularly appreciated this calm and peaceful navigation.
Later, I bought a riverboat on the Nivernais canal. it was a TR9, catamaran raft with a caravan cell on it, very reassuring with children. Besides, my youngest daughter has taken her first steps on it.
Image
This boat was later sold when I built my house.
After adventures, I wanted to discover the river navigation to my new companion, the chance of a week of rental on the Mayenne. As soon as I had sacked, I felt like embarking again. So I ordered a hull to my landlord who was also building.
Image
The idea was to fix a caravan cell and propel it with one or two outboard engines.
This could make a boat very economical and very nice.
I already had the idea of ​​an electric propulsion.
Last edited by nevada the 17 / 12 / 08, 14: 23, 2 edited once.
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by Christophe » 17/12/08, 14:14

Oh interesting as a concept!
I have never seen ... It still exists? It's still approved?
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nevada
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by nevada » 17/12/08, 14:44

TR9 still sailing and homologated at the time are still ...
And then, I thought to make a super structure more livable. And it's the engrnagage ... We do not think anymore or think too much about what we think. The hull was ready in June 2006 and I saw myself already mounting a superstructure in a month ... We can dream ...
During the construction of the hull, I had worked on electric propulsion.
Many electric propulsions exist and it would be enough for me to make 2 4000 checks euros to get the two necessary propulsions.
I left on a coupling of small motors driving a propeller shaft. The control of the motors is done with a relay combiner to avoid an expensive electronic.
Image
The coupling plate of the engines (the chains are missing)
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Top view we see 2 engines, the other 2 are below
Image
The relay combiner with its "bulk" control
At the end of August 2006, the coupling of the motors and the combiner were working, but the tree line not yet laid and the sides of the superstructure were built, but I will come back to it.
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nevada
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The construction of the superstructure




by nevada » 17/12/08, 14:59

On the hull, I started to mount a metal tube frame. then with other tubes, I put the windows:
Image
Then once the windows were put, I started to fix the clapboard:
Image
And here is the result at the end of the summer 2006:
Image
In reality, the 2 side walls were finished climbing.
We can see the space we are going to have.
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nevada
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What followed




by nevada » 17/12/08, 15:54

At the February holidays, the roof was laid by my builder and we lay the floor, or rather, we start. In parallel, I recover HB engines whose engine is HS but whose transmission works.
On one of them a 9.9cv Jhonson I have a 2000w 24V engine and on another, a 500w 24V engine. At the same time, I found a small cabinier from 5.09m, a Jeanneau arcachois, to test. The theory is good, the practice is not bad either .... In reality, the very first tests will be done on a Croisicais (Jeanneau also), lent by my builder to which I could not do enough. justified praise.
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Happiness on the Mayenne in the silence of the electric motor. The engine does not smoke (thankfully), the helmsman though.
Next to me the engine control
Image
We see one of the 4 batteries that overtakes, measuring instruments and engine control relays that go around so much we were in a hurry to try the beast ....
Already, the approval of the electric motor is there. No noise.
But what a glutton!
For the first tests, I used old batteries of 6v (rinsed) that made 2000 to 3000 m between two refills. that is to say, little ....
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By dint of going against the current, we ended up being at the top ....
nevada
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The first weapons of the Micheline




by nevada » 17/12/08, 16:21

This is the name I gave to the Arcachon. This is the name of my companion, saddened to see his man so often left to work on things that she misunderstands ... (must I feel lonely?)
There was a demonstration in Angers against cystic fibrosis in May. Renaud, my builder proposes to go down the boat by the road. We have installed 4 6A 345A 24A 12A 500A Recharger batteries, 24V 4A Plastimo charger and XNUMXW XNUMXv engine complemented by an XNUMX cv outboard engine in case ....
The day was bleak, a strong wind and heavy rain limited attendance. We decide to go up the boat by the river instead of road. For this I will be assisted by my friend Alexis who also owns a boat in the port of Entrammes and who is very interested in electric propulsion.
Here is the Micheline:
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Here is the godmother Micheline on the boat Alexis
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And the motorization of the Micheline the 500W 24V engine and that which is raised is the 2 electric CV engine.
Image
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By dint of going against the current, we ended up being at the top ....
nevada
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The first "Raid" of Micheline




by nevada » 17/12/08, 16:37

Do not laugh, it's not the Paris Dakar (or Paris Fontainebleau) but we went on an adventure with confidence in the realization and to put it to the test. I assure you, we have not risked our lives .... : Mrgreen:

The Angers Entrammes raid in hybrid boat

During the construction of my boat, to make concrete tests on the electric propulsion fluvial, I invested in a small cabinier of 5m which will allow me to test various propulsion formulas.
The 13 May 2007, with Renaud, we went down to Angers a boat to participate in the Virades de l'espoir, demonstration for the fight against mucovidosis where ANPEI is a partner.
Given the difficulties of launching on an average hold, we decided to go up by the river, which will allow us to test a prototype.
The boat is an Arcachon from Jeanneau, 5,09m long weighing about 500Kg empty. It is equipped with an 4Cv heat engine and 2 / 3 Cv electric motor prototype. It consumes about 30A in 24V. For the latter, 200Kg batteries have been charged in Arcachon. These batteries are out of winter and have not yet "worked" this year. They had maintenance loads this winter, and had a charge of 10h of the evening until 6h of the morning with a charger Plastimo 24V 12A. The engine is there to protect us from a failure of the electric motor or the exhaustion of the batteries. Bad luck, we were loaned another charger that is out of order. We will only be able to charge the batteries to 12A. We also take a 4 time generator that can power the charger during navigation. The boat in charge with the crew weighs more than 900 Kg.
The start
With Alexis, owner of the Petit bouchon we are gone from the quai des Carmes in Angers on Wednesday 16 May 2007 to 8h20 morning. The batteries could not be charged since Sunday also we go to the engine with the group en route to recharge the batteries. The engine is not pushed fully, we accelerate it until the front starts to lift, and at that moment, we lower the gas a little. We are practically at the hull speed, no need to waste fuel.
We go up Maine, then the Mayenne, with a wait of 5mn to the ferry of the island St Aubin, and a little further, we wait 5 minutes Renaud who brings us the horn of fog forgotten in his car.
We arrive at the Montreuil Beffroy lock at 9h45 after a navigation of 10 Km.
Let 1h25, or 1h15 actual navigation to a real average of 8 Km / h. The boat's hull speed is therefore very close to 8 Km / h. The thermal is pushed to about ¾ regime.
At 9h58, we come out of the lock in pure electric propulsion. The voltage is 24,3V motor in operation. (All voltages will be given motor running, the no-load voltage being higher).
It's pleasure, happiness, slip silently on the Mayenne. The contrary wind is a little annoying and we reach the lock of Sautré at 11h12. 1h14 for 6300m against wind and current at an average of 5,1 Km / h.
We leave the lock at 11h12 at the thermal this time. We are not only there for sightseeing, and we would like to pass the Grez Neuville lock before 12h30, lock closing time. We take this opportunity to get the group back on track.
What a noise after all this silence ....
Lock of the Roussière to 11h39, ie 27 minutes for 2 Km to 4,44Km / h. The wind is really violent. We come out at 11h42 and reach Grez Neuville at 12h16, which is 4,6 Km at 34 mn at 8,1 Km / h.
Exit the lock at 12h20.
We reach Montreuil sur Maine at 13h03. Let 5,9Km in 43mn 8,2 Km / h The lock is of course closed, and we have a lunch break ... without lunch ... Indeed, we forgot to take bread this morning and bakeries are rather rare on the river, fortunately, we have not forgotten the rosé and some chocolate bars we will stall a little. The group is still running, but as it is on the beach before, it does not bother us too much.
14h05, we come out of the lock in electric propulsion 24,4V in the sound of silence ... which is very pleasant.
After a few hundred meters, electric motor failure. No more walking forward. We have the reverse. The forward contacts burned. It will have to be strengthened. In 30 seconds, I reverse 2 son. The reverse of the step forward and we are off again.
We arrive at La Roche Chambellay at 14h35 or 30mn for 3200m at 6,4 Km / h.
The Chenillé Changé lock is reached at 15h07 with a battery voltage of 23,9V, ie 3,1Km in 32 mn, rather 29 taking into account the lock time at 6,4 Km / h.
The electric motor works perfectly, the heating remains moderate, but in slight increase.
The eluse of the Jaille Yvon is reached at 15h39 at 23,8V, ie 2500m at 32 mn, rather 29 taking into account the lock time at 5,1 Km / h.
The batteries begin to weaken, the speed suffers. Before the Formusson lock, under the Daon bridge, the voltage drops to 20,57V, the batteries are flat, we restart the thermal. It should be noted that it is useless and even harmful for the batteries to push the discharge below 22V, the voltage collapses. These are tests, and the batteries were immediately returned to the group.
We have traveled 14,7 Km in 2H57 to the average of 4,98 Km / h (not deducted lock time) in total silence with batteries that have never had time to reach their full load and a violent wind that we has slowed down.
We reach the Formusson lock at 17h.
We return to the thermal group en route and reach the Menil lock at 17h40, 4,350 40mn, rather 37 taking into account the lock time 7Km / h.
Bad news, the next lock is closed. We will not be at Château Gontier tonight as we had planned.
We leave again and we reach the lock of the Bavouze 18h07. The lock is under construction. The lock, very nice, we propose to lock when the workers have finished, but in any case, it will be impossible to pass the lock of the Hangman before 20H. We call Renaud.
We have covered 49,67Km since this morning including 21 in electric propulsion 9h47 the average of 5 km / h stops included. This is of course not a walk, but rather a conveyance.
A DDE manager, very friendly allows us to park in the lock for the night, (provided it is released before 9h tomorrow morning which is normal) and we connect to a power outlet to recharge the batteries any the night.
Second day
Thursday 17 we arrive at 8h at the lock of the Bavouze. The batteries are charged, but not the "cleat". It would have needed a more muscular loader or two loaders.
By operating the electric motor, it fails to fall into the water. The presses were deserted during the night. The rope that secures the engine was torn off the flat edge. We had a visit tonight. Fortunately we had a padlock on the thermal if not ...
It starts badly and it will last.
Departure of the Bavouze at 8h15 with a voltage of 24,9V.
We reach the Hangman lock at 9h06 with a voltage of 23,8V, ie 4,23Km at 51 mn at 4,97 Km / h (not to say 5).
We go back to 9h10 and reach Mirwault at 9h45 with a voltage of 23,4V is 3,3 Km in 35mn at 5,65 Km / h.
We start again at 9h50 and reach La Roche du Maine at 10h20, which is 2,65 Km at 30mn at 5,3 Km / h. The voltage is down at 23V, we will not go far with what's left in the batteries.
We covered 10,18 Km in 2h10 to the average of 4,7 Km / h (stops not deducted).
We leave to the thermal group en route.
A few hundred meters further, the thermal chokes. We try to revive, but in vain. Fortunately we still have the electric. To say that the thermal was there to overcome the deficiencies of the electric! We leave on the electric group en route. We will not go far because the charger supplied 12A batteries and engine pump 30 ... Clearly you have to load an hour to navigate 20 minutes.
The wind is strong and contrary. We reach Neuville at 11h05. At the exit of the lock the group stalls. The total.
Fortunately, for the group, the breakdown is easy to repair, just refuel. We enter the pontoon after the lock and super there is a creperie. We call Renaud and in the meantime, we'll have a coffee. The thermal will not restart. It does not even cough, which suggests an ignition failure.
We have a good lunch at the creperie. The river, it digs. During the meal, the group gently inflates our batteries.
Departure from Neuville to 13h30. Battery voltage 24,8V rapidly decreasing. We reach the end of 14h10 with a battery voltage of 23,9V. Let 2,83Km be 40mn to 4,24 Km / h.
It remains 6,21 Km until the lock of the Pit. It's going to be right. 500M before the lock of the Pit is Gilles' boat. He artistically restored a 10m x 4m boat and lives aboard. He has kindly agreed to provide us with power and to keep us together for the night. But you have to join him ...
At 15h05, the tension approaches the 22V, it is necessary to approach while we can still maneuver, because the wind did not weaken.
We start again at 15h25 the voltmeter indicates 24,1V and I hope to arrive at destination but the tension drops quickly. The river presents meanders here and we still hope to see Gilles' boat after the next turn ... Random of a meander, the wind is blowing in our backs. It is an opportunity to turn off the engine to advance to the "sail" standing in the boat our wide open jackets acting as sails. But the river turns again and we have the headwind again. The batteries are exhausted. Rather than stopping again, I shut down the 20 engine every 30 seconds. We advance less quickly, but we advance. Finally at the end of a curve, we see the boat Gilles. Phew!
We draw an extension and we connect the charger to the gilles boat. A good thing done. Then, but only then we enjoy a fresh beer with Gilles. Renaud comes to pick us up and we go back to the base after a good meal.
The last day
Friday 18, we arrive at Gilles and after a good coffee, we leave to 8h45 to the lock of the pit nearby.
We leave the lock at 9h12. The battery voltage is 23,9V.
We arrive at the lock of the Bénâtre at 9h36 with a battery voltage of 23,8V. Let 1,95 Km in 24 mn to 4,12 Km / h.
We leave to 9h51 to arrive at the lock of Briassé to 10h20 with a tension of 23,6V, that is to say 2,72 Km in 29mn to 5,6Km / h. There is an anomaly here the electric motor always running at the same speed and there is no wind to annoy us. I will globalize the times to have a better precision. Consider an average of 5,2 Km / h for the two reaches deducted.
Departure from Briassé to 10h35 arrival at Persigand at 11h15, voltage 23,2V ie 3,49 Km at 40mn at 5,2 Km / h
Arrive at Port Rheingeard at 11h40. The batteries are at 22,8V.
On the 86Km, 52 were driven in electric propulsion. The most fun, the smoking engine that was to rescue us in case of problems with the electric motor .... we dropped on the road ....
The final trip from the lock of the Pit was made in 3h38 stops included. At the end of the cruise, the batteries had a better "breath", proof that "exercise" did them good. During the night, the 12A charger could not, of course, load them all. It is therefore necessary to provide more muscular loaders for electric propulsion. The price of these chargers flies away quickly. Also with Renaud we develop a switch (an 220V motor drives an alternator of 24V 50A). It is an outdated technique (1900 years), but effective and above all economical. We are also studying a variator to vary the speed of the motor which during the test worked in all or nothing. This drive would have allowed us to reduce the power when we were working with the group.
Finally, a 900Kg boat powered by a 4cv heat engine set at about ¾ of its power, about 3CV or 2200W (about 2,440W / Kg) advances against the current at about 8Km / h which is its speed this hull. The same boat powered by a horse 2 / 3 electric motor (about 500W surrendered for about 720w consumed (80% yield) is 0,5W / Kg) advance to more than 5Km / h. The differences in characteristics between thermal and electric engines explain this excellent result.
This confirms by the experimentation of the theoretical figures:
To reach the hull speed, a boat needs 2500W / T, in our case, 2200W for 900Kg.
If we are satisfied with 90% of the hull speed, in our case 7,2 Km / h, 1000W / T is enough, in our case, 900W.
If we are satisfied with 80% of the hull speed, in our case 6,4 Km / h, 750W / T is enough, in our case, 675W.
If we are satisfied with 70% of the hull speed, in our case 5,6 Km / h, 440W / T is enough, in our case, 396W.
And our experimental boat illustrates these theoretical rules which are thus confirmed by experience.
Thus, with a slight reduction of speed, our river boat will be able to sail economically in silence for our greatest pleasure. Of course, circumstances require power, I think for example the threshold Fresne on the Loire. The electric propulsion becomes a plus because added to the thermal propulsion that already equips your boat, it can give a necklace that can be appreciable.
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