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The latest report from the International Energy Agency (IEA) is clear: solar energy costs much less than fossil fuels.

Article to read here: https://www.clubic.com/energie-renouvelable/actualite-19487-l-energie-solaire-est-officiellement-l-energie-la-moins-onereuse-selon-l-iea.html

Yes!

jean.caissepas wrote:

The latest report from the International Energy Agency (IEA) is clear: solar energy costs much less than fossil fuels.

Article to read here: https://www.clubic.com/energie-renouvelable/actualite-19487-l-energie-solaire-est-officiellement-l-energie-la-moins-onereuse-selon-l-iea.html

Yes!

if we do not try to store it of course.

Note that we are talking about producing electricity here, but if we look at the production of heat, direct solar energy is also much cheaper than all the others, since it costs absolutely nothing, it suffices to put in the sun and it heats up by itself !! therefore cost = 0 € / kWh, unbeatable.

again, if we do not try to store it, of course.

ABC2019 wrote:again, if we do not try to store it, of course.

It's changing ... and fast.
We currently have LFP 3.2V 280AH batteries at 72 € per unit HT given for 3500 cycles. Let's calculate the cost of storage:
72 € * 1,20 (VAT) / (3500 cycles * 3.2V * 280AH * 0,8 (battery used at 80% maximum) / 1000 (kWh)) -> 3,4 € ct per kWh.
34 € per MWh in storage is not expensive for an individual. Ok we have to add a little electronics, but we are currently less than 100 € per kWh stored.

ENERC wrote:

ABC2019 wrote:again, if we do not try to store it, of course.

It's changing ... and fast.
We currently have LFP 3.2V 280AH batteries at 72 € per unit HT given for 3500 cycles. Let's calculate the cost of storage:
72 € * 1,20 (VAT) / (3500 cycles * 3.2V * 280AH * 0,8 (battery used at 80% maximum) / 1000 (kWh)) -> 3,4 € ct per kWh.
34 € per MWh in storage is not expensive for an individual. Ok we have to add a little electronics, but we are currently less than 100 € per kWh stored.

it is because you consider that the storage capacity must be dimensioned to the average power consumed, but in the event of intermittence it is completely false. Just imagine a week without sun. Otherwise you can imagine that we would no longer build gas power stations, only PV installations plus batteries ...

ABC2019 wrote:

ENERC wrote:

ABC2019 wrote:again, if we do not try to store it, of course.

It's changing ... and fast.
We currently have LFP 3.2V 280AH batteries at 72 € per unit HT given for 3500 cycles. Let's calculate the cost of storage:
72 € * 1,20 (VAT) / (3500 cycles * 3.2V * 280AH * 0,8 (battery used at 80% maximum) / 1000 (kWh)) -> 3,4 € ct per kWh.
34 € per MWh in storage is not expensive for an individual. Ok we have to add a little electronics, but we are currently less than 100 € per kWh stored.

it is because you consider that the storage capacity must be dimensioned to the average power consumed, but in the event of intermittence it is completely false. Just imagine a week without sun. Otherwise you can imagine that we would no longer build gas power stations, only PV installations plus batteries ...

I don't give a damn about the network and EDF. It's not my problem.
As a consumer, if the kWh stored on my batteries with PV is cheaper than at EDF or at Cdiscount, I equip myself.
As a consumer you take the cheapest product, don't you?
EDF & Cie will adapt. The consumer too.

with liquid nitrogen we poura store for weeks and months with a yield of at least 60%.

so if we need to store half of the energy produced, we go from 2 cents per kwh to 4 or 5 cents maximum.

ENERC wrote:

ABC2019 wrote:

ENERC wrote:It's changing ... and fast.
We currently have LFP 3.2V 280AH batteries at 72 € per unit HT given for 3500 cycles. Let's calculate the cost of storage:
72 € * 1,20 (VAT) / (3500 cycles * 3.2V * 280AH * 0,8 (battery used at 80% maximum) / 1000 (kWh)) -> 3,4 € ct per kWh.
34 € per MWh in storage is not expensive for an individual. Ok we have to add a little electronics, but we are currently less than 100 € per kWh stored.

it is because you consider that the storage capacity must be dimensioned to the average power consumed, but in the event of intermittence it is completely false. Just imagine a week without sun. Otherwise you can imagine that we would no longer build gas power stations, only PV installations plus batteries ...

I don't give a damn about the network and EDF. It's not my problem.
As a consumer, if the kWh stored on my batteries with PV is cheaper than at EDF or at Cdiscount, I equip myself.
As a consumer you take the cheapest product, don't you?
EDF & Cie will adapt. The consumer too.

I doubt that EDF can adapt.

ENERC wrote:

ABC2019 wrote:

ENERC wrote:It's changing ... and fast.
We currently have LFP 3.2V 280AH batteries at 72 € per unit HT given for 3500 cycles. Let's calculate the cost of storage:
72 € * 1,20 (VAT) / (3500 cycles * 3.2V * 280AH * 0,8 (battery used at 80% maximum) / 1000 (kWh)) -> 3,4 € ct per kWh.
34 € per MWh in storage is not expensive for an individual. Ok we have to add a little electronics, but we are currently less than 100 € per kWh stored.

it is because you consider that the storage capacity must be dimensioned to the average power consumed, but in the event of intermittence it is completely false. Just imagine a week without sun. Otherwise you can imagine that we would no longer build gas power stations, only PV installations plus batteries ...

I don't give a damn about the network and EDF. It's not my problem.
As a consumer, if the kWh stored on my batteries with PV is cheaper than at EDF or at Cdiscount, I equip myself.
As a consumer you take the cheapest product, don't you?
EDF & Cie will adapt. The consumer too.

This is not what I am telling you, I am telling you that the price depends on the maximum capacity that you can ask for, which is much higher than the average capacity required.
And that if it were interesting for an individual, it would be even more interesting for EDF with the economies of scale. However, no one is saying that we could equip the French grid with PV and batteries. Think about it, there must be a reason.

But go ahead, nobody forbids you to equip yourself with solar panels, batteries and inverters. You will give us a report.

ENERC wrote:I don't give a damn about the network and EDF. It's not my problem.

This is where in my opinion your mistake, except to really give up your connection to the network, which will cost you dearly in storage if you want to live on standards say "usual", in the sense "I electricity when I want ".
But it is a choice, all the easier to accept as we are the only one to have to make it (no children at home, ....).
I am convinced that the "back-up" connection, ie with very little consumption, will see its fixed price (the subscription) increase significantly in the years to come. At least that would be a logical development.

sicetaitsimple wrote:

ENERC wrote:I don't give a damn about the network and EDF. It's not my problem.

This is where in my opinion your mistake, except to really give up your connection to the network, which will cost you dearly in storage if you want to live on standards say "usual", in the sense "I electricity when I want ".
But it is a choice, all the easier to accept as we are the only one to have to make it (no children at home, ....).
I am convinced that the "back-up" connection, ie with very little consumption, will see its fixed price (the subscription) increase significantly in the years to come. At least that would be a logical development.

I'm not sure the membership is going up that much because of social acceptability. People with low incomes will not be able to pay 50 € per month for the non-consumption meter. Or we will make a social tariff for the poor.
When you are connected to the network, it is currently economical to store a little PV during the day to use it at night (around 3 -5 kWh - except for heavy use at night).
It was an addition to the original subject to indicate that PV + small storage are now under 19 ct per kWh on metropolitan France.