What is the efficiency of a solar heating?

[Luc and Cindy]

Hello, my friend and I are new to this forum which will certainly help us to answer our many questions.

Indeed, 25ans, we will soon build a house we did draw by an architect specialized in bioclimatic, so it is well oriented, willing, etc ... Facilitating and maximum passive heating; but lack of means, it is not at the top and still needs heating

We are interested in a solar heating system, the problem is that nobody tells us the same return, some say we 30% at best and others to 70%, gold changes everything a financial point of view . We are ready to invest a large sum of money for a yield of at least 60% but less if it will not be possible (We planned a Scandinavian stove as extra)

In fact I would say we are completely lost, for several months we are going in circles without knowing what to opt heating mode, we want something green but at a price and performance corecte, butter and money butter in short

If anyone could help it would be really nice.
We would really like to invest in protecting our planet, but how can we do it when we can not afford it?

[Christophe]

Uh I do not know who is talking about a solar yield of 30% but it's anything ... or so we do not have the same definition of a yield ...

Could you tell us more about solar offers that you did? What are the technological differences between the 30 70% and%?

Moreover to answer your question precisely it should be known that what you mean by performance?

Technological or financial performance? In the second case it is difficult to estimate since it is based on the price of fossil flucte that constantly (even though the general trend is to the hause)

I like your signature that you could illustrate a practical example of Easter Island! https://www.econologie.com/l-ile-de-paqu ... s-689.html

ps: pay attention to color is hard to read ...

[Christophe]

In our solar system that has 20 years were estimated performance and it gives about:

- Yield panels of 70%

- COP from 60 to 70 (some will say 6 to 7000%)

[Luc and Cindy]

Thank you for answering so fast.

When we speak of a return that was actually the heating% we bring solar, basically we were told that 30% would be produced by solar and it would make the 70% remaining by a system extra, not very interesting! Celon commercial business of Giordano (I know if I have the right to name the brand)

I do not know what we were told for the Clipsol system.

Monday we saw a heating contractor who installs the Viessmann or De Dietrich him and we announce a 70% cover heating by solar and therefore 30% for the extra, there we like it better

In fact I forgot to mention that we will install a Canadian Well and can be a VMC double flow if useful. We live to Issoire (63) in 500m altitude.

ps : Sorry for colors, I wanted to test I put everything back in black!

[Christophe]

Ok in this case it has nothing to do with the yield but it's the solar (energy) coverage rate you're talking about! Really weird that the pros use the word "yield" especially since the brands you mention are not small brands ...

So obviously the coverage depends on 2 key parameter:

1) the solar potential of your region
2) your energy needs (surface, number of people, so heat loss insulation quality ...)
3) the number of m² installed

In other words, it is impossible to determine a coverage rate without knowing its parameters and therefore the study of the coverage is done case by case ...

Everything is to find the best compromise for a return on investment faster possible and I doubt that this is a profitable date with 30% ...

The pros recommend a coverage rate greater than 80% for reasons of overheating (and probably also investment).

[Capt_Maloche]

Heating the most eco system will remain south-facing solar collectors (most effective in empty in winter) connected to heating thick floors for calculating thermal inertia to 2 3 days in winter (storage).
an insulating coating (wood or lino ...) to determine suit to the insulation quality of the house will be placed on every floor heating surfaces.

The insulation of the house must be made from the outside to remove the thermal bridges.

An ideal complement is provided by a wood stove with a water exchanger connected on the same installation.

Cool idea blown by my uncle arch would create an underground level for sleeping room (as in Canada) with a skylight in the center to reduce wastage

[bham]

Hi Luc and Cindy.
When you talk about 30 70% and% yield, it reminds me of what we had already told me, ie 30% for solar heating and 70% for heating domestic hot water.
So first, do not you doing the confusion between the two?

[jean63]

Thank you for answering so fast.

When we speak of a return that was actually the heating% we bring solar, basically we were told that 30% would be produced by solar and it would make the 70% remaining by a system extra, not very interesting! Celon commercial business of Giordano (I know if I have the right to name the brand)

I do not know what we were told for the Clipsol system.

Monday we saw a heating contractor who installs the Viessmann or De Dietrich him and we announce a 70% cover heating by solar and therefore 30% for the extra, there we like it better

In fact I forgot to mention that we will install a Canadian Well and can be a VMC double flow if useful. We live to Issoire (63) in 500m altitude.

ps : Sorry for colors, I wanted to test I put everything back in black!

1 - an example of a passive solar house => http://www.labonnemaison.fr/
They announce 12 euros / month heating !!! I am very skeptical (maximum insulation: 40 cm in walls and roof + large glazed areas in the South + brick wall in the house to store and release heat stored in the day by the sun (greenhouse) it c is the theory = let her open all day even in his absence shutters ... it can be risky for the flight.

2 - In your case: 500 m altitude near Issoire, this is not a place where sunlight is optimal, it is better in the Alps or the Pyrenees in altitude, even Auvegne elsewhere. Often there is a cloud ceiling in the valleys and large sun all day in the mountains (I've found during walks or going skiing in Super-Besse).

3 - If you want to heat yourself with solar collectors, you have to know if your house is "passive solar" (see example above), what insulation, surface / volume to heat.
From there, a heating engineer can calculate the power requirements for a given temperature in the house.
I do not trust a lot of these commercial announcing anything without making any calculations.

4 - The best solution is "low temperature" underfloor heating (water circulating in pipes embedded in the concrete slab of the floor).

Following soon ... to finish ..... a +

[Luc and Cindy]

So to sum up all your answers, in fact, only a heating engineer could tell us whether it's worth the cost or not to install a solar heating in our future home since it will depend on a lot of parameters such as location, the home insulation and overall design. OK, but where can I find this man here ???


to bham No, no I was not confusing, it could have been in effect but no, they spoke well of heating every time

to jean63 : Regarding the passive house it is clear that there is far, I just said we had optimized the max passive heating of our house within the limits of feasible according to our means.

here's an overview of how we expect the house (for the technical side Luke is stalled that I hope I will not tell you anything stupid )

The living room faces south with bay window, buffer room to the north (garage), kitchen to the west, 37 "monomur" brick wall, attic insulated with 30cm (I think!) Of cellulose wadding, Canadian well , solar water heater (that's for sure), ground insulation with cork, heated floor (regardless of the system chosen), Terracotta on the ground floor, roof slope at 45 ° for the panels,

Well I surely forget but I think it's already quite good?

Anyway thank you all for your answers, you feel less alone.

[jean63]

here's an overview of how we expect the house (for the technical side Luke is stalled that I hope I will not tell you anything stupid)

The living room faces south with bay window, buffer room to the north (garage), kitchen to the west, 37 "monomur" brick wall, attic insulated with 30cm (I think!) Of cellulose wadding, Canadian well , solar water heater (that's for sure), ground insulation with cork, heated floor (regardless of the system chosen), Terracotta on the ground floor, roof slope at 45 ° for the panels,

Well I surely forget but I think it's not bad right?

This is fine, but the problem is the cost !! ... Well maybe not for you?
When I built my house timber frame 20 years ago, before installing floor heating and make the choice of the heat source, the heating turned to a thermal design office that the dimensioned boiler (power to the city of natural gas at home) the heating circuits by the soil and the size of the radiators in the rooms of 1er floor.

Normally, the architect should be able to refer you to a heating and thermal BE.

As far as I'm concerned, the Issoire Region BE no longer exists apparently and the heating engineer has retired just after my installation. It was 1ère for him and it works very well.

I also plan to complete with solar collectors, but I'm not yet decided.

I have no illusions about the solar gain for heating in our region except for some beautiful cold and cloudless winter days. We should go and see houses which have made the leap (we have to travel through the countryside and look at the roofs !!). There is a house in Parent (near Coudes) whose roof is a collector (inclined at 45 °). This house existed before I built (<1985).

We had a discussion here with Christophe these days on the subject => https://www.econologie.com/forums/schema-cha ... t4266.html

My installation =>

I went in my archives to find the documents plans and invoices that date from 1985.

1 - Invoice of heating, Dec = 1985 68 000 francs (including gas connection to the counter limit property = 35 ml).

Excluding the insulation under trellis posed by myself and the pipe coating slab casting not the tiler.
This bill includes special 5 Acova radiators low temperature and low inertia (aesthetic pre-painted on request) of the stage for 9500 francs - bcp cheaper with more conventional radiators.

2 - The buffer tank I'm talking about is in fact "a 50-liter homogenization bottle with heat insulation => I will explain its role in the installation (linked to the wall-mounted boiler which produces hot water, heating and DHW in its own tank integrated with PRIORITY DHW production if the taps are requested -small 60-liter tank sufficient for cooking and showers; this is not instantaneous, but I have set the temperature produced to 40-45 ° so as not to burn themselves (children This boiler has its own circulator and expansion vessel (replaced by a larger one given the size of the installation and the volume of water in the circuits), so the water must be can always CIRCULATE either to the floor radiators and / or to the "homogenization bottle (if the 3-way valve to PC is completely closed (no request) and / or to the PC if request (3-way valve ajar or wide open) ).

Manufacturer of the heating system / ground = VELTA.

See towards the end there is the plan of my installation.

There are 2 sites where they are very solar savvy and have very good facilities =>
http://forum.apper-solaire.org/index.ph ... 47137e99a8
There is everything to get help, awards, recommendations, one must look at the sections, even a purchasing group for good prices ..... but it's always better if one is good handyman and that installs itself;

And they too, generally installations for domestic hot water and always a boiler coupled to the system =>
http://www.chaleurterre.com/wiki/doku.p ... re_membres
and particularly one in the Drôme with 10 m2 of sensors ... and a gas boiler (and it's in the South in the Drôme !!) =>
http://www.chaleurterre.com/wiki/doku.p ... l_-_niepce
..with the same materials that you: Building Type: Single Family (monomur Brick, insulation cellulose wadding)

Issuer: Heated floor (90m²)

You can get in touch with these people via the forum of heat, they will surely advise you.

So, if you have time and patience, you can find lots of information, but what matters in the end is what installation what cost, what return and how many years of return on investment of your installation. It takes a quote (or) specific for your home is a must, and beware of speech vendors who are toutpoil connaisent NOTHING. Nothing beats a good specialist and a real one. Ask to show you Heating heating installs floor .... walking with solar collectors if possible.

Good luck to you and let us know.