Energy renovation: EDF, GDF-Suez, incompetent RGE-UFC

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
User avatar
jlt22
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 414
Registration: 04/04/09, 13:37
Location: Guingamp 69 years

Energy renovation: EDF, GDF-Suez, incompetent RGE-UFC




by jlt22 » 29/05/14, 19:13

Topic divided since: https://www.econologie.com/forums/faire-et-c ... t3770.html

ATE council said:

I have made my contribution to the edifice by stating that in this case, the simple solutions of thermal computation can bring only simplistic conclusions ... the engines of computations referenced for the PROS in questions - and thus put in the point for months by competent engineers - could not be replaced by a simple tools with comparable conclusions ...
But maybe I get lost ...


Que Choisir has just released a very edifying statement about these so-called professionals: https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 5VM1Ns.pdf

Energy renovation of housing
The poor performance of professionals imposes a reconstruction of the system


Energy renovation
While the bill on the energy transition, dealing with the renovation of housing, should be presented soon, the UFC-Que Choisir publishes the disastrous results of a survey on the reliability of diagnostics EDF, GDF-Suez and independent " RGE "(1). The association is calling for a total overhaul of the system of support for energy renovation of housing.

The soaring energy budget of households (+ 23% since 2007) requires a real energy renovation of the aging housing stock. This renovation nowadays rests on two types of actors: professionals labeled "RGE" - labeling promoted as a guarantee of competence - and the partners of EDF and GDF-Suez. The UFC-Que Choisir therefore decided to conduct the survey to test their reliability: in March-April, the association asked 34 professionals to evaluate the energy performance of 5 houses located in the four corners of France, and to recommend renovation works, before having the specifications analyzed by an independent expert (2). On professional 29 having moved, the disappointment is up to the stakes: huge!

Build Evaluation: an audit of the subscribers absent in 75% of cases, and a real lottery in terms of information

While a total energy audit of the property is essential for the reliability of the recommendations, only 58% of the service providers visited all the places. Worse, on the 29 travels, only 8 personalized and exhaustive reports were given to the owners. 15 professionals have been content with standard quotes containing mainly summary recommendations of work, when 6 did not even bother to send any document. In the end, only a quarter of service providers meet the requirement for prior audit. This pitiful result in terms of auditing inevitably leads to proposals for piecemeal or even incoherent work.

Work Tips: Big Anything

Only 1 professional on the 23 having sent written recommendations, proposed work on the 3 criteria required for energy renovation: housing envelope, ventilation, heat production. The lack of a global approach is particularly glaring at the partners of EDF or GDF-Suez focused on the heat production system. Too bad advice: some found during the evaluation a significant loss of heat housing ... but did not propose anything in fine on the casing of the frame or ventilation! This inconsistency is coupled with the valuation by these "experts" of poorly performing equipment, while the additional cost of switching to a thicker insulation is negligible - far from the cost of labor and the necessary tools - and makes it possible to realize the biggest savings.

Financial advice: the guarantee ... of a minimum service

All the professionals studied give only minimal and generic information on funding aids and do not engage in any personalized financial advice, detailing the amounts of support that the household can claim. The consumer is left alone with such a heavy documentation (33 pages) as technical. As a result, the quotes are all gross costs, excluding aid, which can distort decision-making by the owners. Indeed, once integrated aid, some more efficient but a priori more expensive estimates are ultimately more economical.

In the end, a system of help to renovate from top to bottom

These shortcomings, at any level, point to the failure of the renovation support system, starting with trusted providers. The partners of EDF and GDF-Suez are far from the expected service, especially since their services are billed respectively not less than 290 € and 390 €. The failure of the "RGE" approach is even more striking, in particular because of an abbreviated (2 days) and non-continuous training, the absence of recurring controls or the non-opposability of the alleged energy savings. As for the financing mechanisms, they are so complex and changing that the professionals have preferred to abandon any accompaniment of the customer who finds himself lost in a real information and pricing jungle.

Decided to clean up a crucial market for consumer energy expenditure and the environment, the UFC-Que Choisir requires a total overhaul of the system of aid for energy renovation and asks the Minister of Ecology that the project of the law on the energy transition:

Dramatically reinforces the formation and control of the "quality sign" "RGE"
Promoting a new sector of independent experts able to coordinate the work and support the consumer throughout its energy renovation process - from audit to the realization of savings, a kind of energy architects;
Completely reviews funding aids to increase their incentive impact: progressivity of the aid linked to the performance of the renovation, complementarity between the various aids (Ecoprêt, CIDD)


(1) Recognized Guarantor of the Environment
(2) On the 34 professionals contacted, 29 made a visit leading to 25 assessments and 23 proposals. These proposals were analyzed by an independent provider working for the major players in the sector in France and Europe

Find the study and the proposals of the UFC-Que Choisir on "Energy renovation of housing: the poor performance of professionals requires a reconstruction of the system" (PDF- 1 Mo)


http://www.quechoisir.org/immobilier-lo ... du-systeme

http://www.quechoisir.org/immobilier-lo ... du-systeme

http://www.quechoisir.org/media/fichier ... nergetique
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79118
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10973




by Christophe » 29/05/14, 21:57

Excellent information! To relay as much as possible!

Thank you jlt22

What is more logical than energy sellers are quite (willingly ...) incompetent to do lower energy bills to their customers?
0 x
User avatar
ATE.Conseil
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 27
Registration: 02/09/10, 13:28
Location: Obernai (67)

Qualification of renovation professionals




by ATE.Conseil » 30/05/14, 13:45

That's why there are skills certifications such as ERE: Expert in Energy Renovation

Greetings

Philippe DESON
Council ATE manager
www.ate-conseil.eu
0 x
ATE Council accompanies you to reduce your energy consumption
User avatar
jlt22
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 414
Registration: 04/04/09, 13:37
Location: Guingamp 69 years




by jlt22 » 30/05/14, 15:28

ATE said:

That's why there are skills certifications such as ERE: Expert in Energy Renovation


Perhaps, but totally ineffective, according to the investigation of Que Choisir.

Decided to clean up a crucial market for consumer energy expenditure and the environment, the UFC-Que Choisir requires a total overhaul of the system of aid for energy renovation and asks the Minister of Ecology that the project of the law on the energy transition:

Dramatically reinforces the formation and control of the "quality sign" "RGE"
Promoting a new sector of independent experts able to coordinate the work and support the consumer throughout its energy renovation process - from audit to the realization of savings, a kind of energy architects;

Source What to choose:
http://www.quechoisir.org/immobilier-logement/achat-vente-travaux/renovation/communique-renovation-energetique-des-logements-la-pietre-performance-des-professionnels-impose-une-reconstruction-du-systeme
0 x
craftsmen group
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 2
Registration: 10/02/15, 16:54
Location: Normandy




by craftsmen group » 10/02/15, 17:20

Hello
It is true that a few days of training to be RGE is a little light, moreover the thermal regulation in the renovation is very vague, compared to the RT 2012 that we apply in the new one, with a final test to verify the quality of work, waterproofing and insulation! In renovation nothing!
For us a good renovation is an overall work have a global view of the condition of housing, a good thermal study can determine the most urgent work and especially coordinate them, too often customers have come across a good commercial that changed their windows without looking at them, insulation or even ventilation, and a few months later they find themselves with moisture everywhere!
There should be a new regulation soon with hopefully a final test as in the new
Have a good day
0 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15992
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5188

Re: Energy renovation: EDF, GDF-Suez, RGE incompetent-UFC




by Remundo » 18/04/23, 09:35

I am posting this funny little video here



in summary: it denounces the fool's market organized by the State concerning the energy renovation of housing.
0 x
Image

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : Bing [Bot] and 315 guests