Heating with thermodynamic water heater

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
charli76
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Heating with thermodynamic water heater




by charli76 » 01/12/13, 16:13

My oil boiler begins to tire and looking at the different possibilities of replacement, I ask myself the question: why not use a thermodynamic water heater to heat the water of the radiators since these are sold to consume very little.
Can someone tell me if this is possible and economical.
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ATE.Conseil
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DHW Thermodynamics for heating




by ATE.Conseil » 02/12/13, 10:17

Hello,

If I understood your question correctly, you are considering using a balloon DHW Thermodynamics as a heating installation.
If so, know that it is strong unlikely to work, and that it is effective.
Indeed, the DHW heat pump placed on the balloon at a power of the order of 2-3kWh, sufficient to produce the DHW.
As for heating, it all depends - of course - on the quality of insulation in your home ...
You should know that the heat needs of a new RT2012 house is around 4-6kWh ... and here we are talking about a house which must be 5 to 6 times less energy-consuming than an old house .. .
Just look at the nominal power of your current boiler to get an idea ... it is certainly somewhat oversized ... but not that much.

If you want to replace your oil boiler, ask yourself a few questions first:
    - Shouldn't we take the opportunity to make an effective overall renovation (BBC Renovation level)?
    - Once renovated, your house will have only very small needs ... should we not keep the current boiler in this case?
    - If the current boiler is too old, what can I turn to?

Hoping to have laid a stone for your reflection

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by jonule » 02/12/13, 10:52

Hello,
I made yet another choice:
I bought a fuel oil boiler at 200 € on leboncoin, it is a low temperature Dedietrich from 2005, there is even condensation for a little more expensive.
my old one was from 1972.

Is it a good choice ? I think I have gained 33 years of technology for not much,
how much did I gain in return compared to the cost spent?

> In charli76, you were thinking of using a thermodynamic water heater for heating IN ADDITION to your main water heater I imagine?
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Re: DHW Thermodynamics for heating




by dirk pitt » 02/12/13, 13:56

ATE.Conseil wrote:Indeed, the DHW heat pump placed on the balloon at a power of the order of 2-3kWh, sufficient to produce the DHW.
As for heating, it all depends - of course - on the quality of insulation in your home ...
You should know that the needs in heat of a new RT2012 house is approximately 4-6kWh... and here we are talking about a house which must be 5 to 6 times less energy-hungry than an old house ...


be careful, as a pro (it seems to be your case) be careful to use the right terms and the right units if you want to be credible. kWh represent an energy, kW a power.

otherwise, on the merits, you are right
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charli76
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Heating with thermodynamic water heater




by charli76 » 08/12/13, 14:16

Thank you for your answers,
As I am not a specialist, I ask myself questions:
It is true that the power is not very high, but unlike a boiler where there is about 80l of water for heating, it has 200 l in a thermodynamic water heater and the heating return brings back water still a little warm, so maybe not too many calories to heat the water.
To answer Jonule, yes I intended to replace my boiler by a thermodynamic balloon which for me is only a heat pump with a balloon of hot water, but apparently it is not so simple!
I'm counting on your expert answers,
Thank you in advance
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by Forhorse » 08/12/13, 14:59

If you need 12kW of heating and the heat pump can only provide 3kW in the best of cases, it's not having twice as much water that will change anything ...

If your bathtub empties at 250L / min but the tap open in large provides only 60L / min, after a relatively short time, the bathtub will still be empty even if you only opened the drain when it overflowed.
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by ATE.Conseil » 09/12/13, 08:34

Forhorse wrote:If you need 12kW of heating and the heat pump can only provide 3kW in the best of cases, it's not having twice as much water that will change anything ...

If your bathtub empties at 250L / min but the tap open in large provides only 60L / min, after a relatively short time, the bathtub will still be empty even if you only opened the drain when it overflowed.


It is a very good example indeed ... the heating generator must indeed be dimensioned so as to be able to provide at least as much energy as the house loses it ... Unless I am mistaken, the reference is to provide 20 ° C in the house when it's -15 ° C outside ...

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by Gaston » 09/12/13, 12:09

ATE.Conseil wrote:the heating generator must actually be dimensioned so as to be able to supply at least as much energy as the house loses ... Unless I am mistaken, the reference is to supply 20 ° C in the house when it is -15 ° C outside ...
Absolutely.

That said, it is also possible to size the heating generator to provide 20 ° in the house when it is 0 ° outside (i.e. about 2 times less power to be supplied) and to provide an "additional" means of heating (stove. wood, convectors, ...) to supplement the inputs when the temperature drops lower.

This is particularly interesting in regions where very cold periods are rare and short since this avoids oversizing the main heating for exceptional use (a few days a year). And it is all the more profitable when the main heating represents a significant investment, but a reduced cost of use (as in the case of solar heating or by heat pump).

It is just necessary that the use of the "complementary" system is well accepted (therefore reasonably practical and not too expensive).
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by raymon » 09/12/13, 14:49

I think this is not a very good idea because this type of heat pump is made to work summer winter. I think that for the same price you will have a much better copy with a good quality reversible air conditioning.

http://www.atlantic.fr/nos-solutions/ch ... -odyssee-2
Carefully chosen components ensure the high performance of the heat pump:

operation of the heat pump in unheated ambient air at a temperature between -5 ° C and + 35 ° C,


A reversible air conditioning works up to -15 ° manufacturer data also.
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charli76
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Heating with thermodynamic water heater




by charli76 » 09/12/13, 18:50

Hello everybody
Thanks for all the answers, the example of the bathtub is very clear, so it was a bad idea.
thanks again : Lol:
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