Misunderstanding on hydraulic diagram pellet stove

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fabio.gel
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Misunderstanding on hydraulic diagram pellet stove




by fabio.gel » 17/10/13, 08:04

Hello
After an analysis between the two hydraulic piping scheme of two brand of pellet stove hydro,
I wonder why on the extraflame requires a valve 3 channels + 1 balancing valve while on the model at RED there is no need!
Especially since an 3 valve + 1 valve valve increases the bill

If an econologist can help me, thank you

On the extraflame

Image

On the RED

Image
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by jonule » 17/10/13, 09:06

Hello !
the interest of a loop is an option that we did not see too much before, just like the hydro stove elsewhere,
keeping a loop at t ° C makes it possible to avoid bistrage, by shock of difference in t ° C. this is a principle that has been used for a long time on motors for example: we go up to t ° C as quickly as possible, then once the t ° C has been reached (60 ° C so as not to bistrus) we open the loop to exchange the t ° C with the rest of the circuit. On a car engine when it is "hot", ie the cooling water reaches 80 ° C, we keep this t ° C by cooling it on the car's radiator, in vain.
such boxes appear, look here:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/recuperati ... 4-110.html

PS: if you take a good look at your diagrams, it is indicated that the gray parts "are part of the stove", so the 1st shows a good connection, but it's up to you to do it, it's a good suggestion from them as indicated "by way of example". on the 2nd, they show a classic installation, the fastest connection for non-connoisseurs and to show that the connection to radiators is not expensive? ... but we must take care of the regulation and the circuit, it is a gain in consumption and protection for your equipment.

we could even add: instead of the 3 thermostatic valve, put a motorized mixer 4 channel valve, controlled by the room thermostat ... which regulation accounts do you use?

a good site: www.bouilleur.fr look at the "diagrams" section; =)
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A big thank-you




by fabio.gel » 17/10/13, 11:48

Thanks Jonule

So this part should not be ignored, so it is valid for both stove (RED are a little bit light on the spot)
As far as I'm concerned at the stove's bottom there will be 6 radiators with thermostatic + my Rotex Solaris Solar Balloon.
All managed with a room thermostat.

On the other hand, on several videos the assembly is done without valve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8HxVtW7fvk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIDlY2pc17M


jonule wrote:Hello !
the interest of a loop is an option that we did not see too much before, just like the hydro stove elsewhere,
keeping a loop at t ° C makes it possible to avoid bistrage, by shock of difference in t ° C. this is a principle that has been used for a long time on motors for example: we go up to t ° C as quickly as possible, then once the t ° C has been reached (60 ° C so as not to bistrus) we open the loop to exchange the t ° C with the rest of the circuit. On a car engine when it is "hot", ie the cooling water reaches 80 ° C, we keep this t ° C by cooling it on the car's radiator, in vain.
such boxes appear, look here:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/recuperati ... 4-110.html

PS: if you take a good look at your diagrams, it is indicated that the gray parts "are part of the stove", so the 1st shows a good connection, but it's up to you to do it, it's a good suggestion from them as indicated "by way of example". on the 2nd, they show a classic installation, the fastest connection for non-connoisseurs and to show that the connection to radiators is not expensive? ... but we must take care of the regulation and the circuit, it is a gain in consumption and protection for your equipment.

we could even add: instead of the 3 thermostatic valve, put a motorized mixer 4 channel valve, controlled by the room thermostat ... which regulation accounts do you use?

a good site: www.bouilleur.fr look at the "diagrams" section; =)
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fabio.gel
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Thank you for the site of the boilers




by fabio.gel » 17/10/13, 15:47

Thanks Jonules

After analysis of the schematic, a mixing valve is needed when the fluid passes through an element that causes the temperature to fall back badly (the buffer tank for example).

In the case of a radiator series a priori there is no need.

On the other hand in the diagram which corresponds to me I do not see appearing balancing valve (as below)

Image

So I will add on my circuit the mixing valve only
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Re: Thanks for the boilers website




by dirk pitt » 18/10/13, 10:29

fabio.gel wrote:Thanks Jonules

After analysis of the schematic, a mixing valve is needed when the fluid passes through an element that causes the temperature to fall back badly (the buffer tank for example).

In the case of a radiator series a priori there is no need.


the problem is not really there.
a mixing valve mainly allows to have a water temperature in the radiators that is independent of the temperature of the hot water production system (boiler, stove)
the stove heats the water at a high temperature and is not too adjustable. this temperature is often too high compared to the need for radiators, especially in the mid-season.
But trying to regulate the temperature of the radiators by modulating the flow at the thermostatic valves works rather badly and causes significant heat losses in the pipes.
this is why it is necessary to favor a mixing valve.
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by dede2002 » 19/10/13, 10:09

Hello :D

Thank you for these very interesting details.

In an automobile "boiler" there are different types of thermostats.

- With one or two lanes.

- With 2 channels, placed in input or output.

- The one-way system (closed - open gradually) can not be installed as input, it would react too late because there is no traffic.

- The two-way system is more interesting placed input, because it reacts immediately to the arrival of cold water, which limits the thermal shocks.

- In case of failure it does not block the exit.

- The second way is of course on internal recirculation.

The technique of automotive thermostats is reliable and autonomous (without electricity), at 60 degrees it should be even more reliable ..?
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fabio.gel
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I would use this element




by fabio.gel » 19/10/13, 12:02

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