Pellet stove as sole heating in MOB

[mirssa]

Hi,

We build a wood frame house rt2012 as a separative boundary on each side, small facade of 5m50 on 14 m long.
We still hesitate about the choice of heating mode. we are in the Paris region.
Our 2 possible choices considering our budget: a gas condensing boiler, a floor heating on the ground floor (70 m2 open) and radiators on the floor (3 rooms and a bathroom)
Or a pellet stove between 10 and 15 kwh as the only heating solution. With currently electric radiators extra in the rooms. The house will be equipped with a vmc df. The walls have 20 cm insulating rockwool, large bay windows of 4 m orientated south. Stay with a 7 m2 skylight open on floor and glass roof.
The house includes a basement of 40 m2.

Thank you for your advice

[dirk pitt]

do not especially estimate the power of the stove if you opt for this solution. when I see 10 to 15 kw (not kwh in passing), it's not the same.
made a real study of losses to estimate at best the necessary power.
depending on the layout of the house, it might be wise to opt for a "hydro" type pellet stove with hot water production for a few radiators in the remote rooms.

[moulino51]

Hi,

We are building a timber frame house rt2012
Our 2 possible choices considering our budget: a gas condensing boiler, a floor heating on the ground floor (70 m2 open) and radiators on the floor (3 rooms and a bathroom)

Having realized my heating 180 m2, I can assure you that it is really the top. 1000 m tube PER with electric boiler, the constant power generally used is less than 4 Kw / h (rarely 8 Kw / h)

Or a pellet stove between 10 has 15 kwh as the only heating solution. With possibly electric radiators extra in the rooms. The house will be equipped with a vmc df. The walls have 20 cm insulating rockwool.
The house includes a basement of 40 m2.

Warning insulation under underfloor heating in the case of a basement will be more important than on ground.
The VMC DF will save you 30% of heating, see more if you create a Canadian well.

GS

[bidouille23]

Slut,

electric boiler ??? what a strange idea by the times that runs unless you produce the same current ...
Everyone is free ...

What makes me tilt as dirk pit is the estimate that seems hazardous?

For a house that 20 cm of rock wool on the wall I imagine there is at least 30 ceiling, if the airtightness is well done (normally a depression test confirms), in plus a double flow, unless your garage is a refrigerator and your floor not insulated, in any estimate for 70 X25 mm ground your 10 kwh should be quite playable with a water circuit as the say dirk pit ....

Now to be sure there is only a thermal balance that can help you, to do things better.

have a small example that after a quick reading seem to me complete enough to understand what it is:

http://www.ecologs.org/energie/consomma ... iques.html

The question now is who made the plans? you or an architect? if it is an archi it must be able to provide all its calculations, and if it is you and well you still have to do it but I think there is way to find a software that does all that ...

[moulino51]

electric boiler ??? what a strange idea by the times that runs unless you produce the same current ...
Everyone is free ...

Yes, of course I produce my electricity, and the choice of underfloor heating is mainly conditioned by the height of the "open" living room, 4,5 m high.

What makes me tilt as dirk pit is the estimate that seems hazardous?

It is also my impression.

For a house that 20 cm of rock wool on the wall I imagine there is at least 30 ceiling

In my opinion 30 cm are not consistent with the RT2012!

The question now is who made the plans? you or an architect? if it is an archi it must be able to provide all its calculations, and if it is you and well you still have to do it but I think there is way to find a software that does all that ...

For the calculation of the losses, I used the excellent site of Hervé Silve http://herve.silve.pagesperso-orange.fr/deperditions/deperd_simplifiee.htm It is a goldmine, for heating (download of calculation software etc ...)

GS

[bidouille23]

slut

Moulino Nothing to say about the low temperature floor heating is not better for the homogeneity of heat and comfort of this fact.
I was just making a remark when on the electric;) in your case of producer (but it must be said), the solution is quite logical and coherent.
But in case of non-production is viable ??? that's what I said nothing else;).

Regarding the AT LEAST 30 cm I was not far, the rt 2012 requires at least R> ou = to 8 for bbc and R> or = to 10 for BPOS (positive energy building 2020) or with a lambda 0.04 gives 32 cm of insulation and 40 for BPOS , but according to the wool you have a variable lambda from 0.042 to 0.032, so the 30 cm are rather fair;) (if lambda 0.032 then for R = 8 Insulation thickness = 8 * 0.032 = 0.256 is 25.6 cm; )) cqfd.

It seems to me quite well your site moulino.

In terms of calculations there are also among "colleagues" this:

http://forums.futura-sciences.com/habit ... lculs.html

with

http://forums.futura-sciences.com/habit ... ost2675983

it gives an estimate of heating.

I put 140 m² Paris region and basically the forecast revolves around 7000 w, so with our 10 kwh and water circuit have is super good (I personally would make a circuit for hot water and then a circuit with a radiator or two in the radiator stage with a sizing calculation of course but between the radiators and the balloon a kind of three-way thermostatic valve that returns the heat in the radiator circuit when the balloon is hot)

Regarding the stove look what cristophe has done here it speaks aisni that the same subject https://www.econologie.com/forums/petit-poel ... 10993.html there is also here https://www.econologie.com/forums/ecs-et-rad ... 10404.html .


You'll realize that sometimes you do not have to take your head too ...

Regarding the calculations and realizations of circuit heating you will find on the site of the people very qualified to advise you (ennnnnnrrrrmly more than me ).

Here I think I did my part but I will read and see the evolution or the choice that you made so do not hesitate to come back give news .

[Did67]

I put 140 sqm area in Paris and basically the forecast turns around 7000 w, so with our 10 kwh and water circuit have is super good.

No no !!!

If we are talking about the "pellets" option, above all, never oversize!

The power given by the calculation is the maximum power predicted at the indicated point.
*
So if the calculator gives 7 kW, it means that once every year, it will 7 kW (by an external temperature eg - 12 °)

All the rest of the time, we will use less (by - 5 ° by), often much less (by 0 °), much much less ...

The specificity of a pellet stove or boiler is that a solid fuel must be ignited.

Gas or fuel, no problem, you turn on / off with a finger snap.

Pellets are much more complicated.

The operation of a boiler or a pellet stove will automatically be more "harmonious", "non-polluting", etc. than it is dimensioned as accurately as possible.

[and I know what I'm talking about: about 200 m² in Alsace, 1995 construction with very good insulation at the epqoue, outdated today, roughly 2 x BBC: I have a 15 kW pellet boiler which keep doing the "yoyo" = steps / stops; not at all satisfactory; there, before knowing the calculations, randomly, starting to read, I said to myself, the unfortunate ones, it's 5 to 6 kw maximum; good 7 kW I don't mind, but already I don't believe it; or is it fake BBC ???]

On the PC: I only have that and do not really regret it.

With a "cathedral" (the well of light), that seems to me to be necessary!

[Did67]

Ah, I forgot!

Who says MOB says low thermal inertia.

Isolation, we get obsessed with the energy bill.

But think about the heatwaves too! And there, a thick slab will bring a little thermal inertia that will cruelly miss!

Even very well insulated, it will still take in some calories in summer. And if they do not find "mass" to absorb them, the interior temperature will rise quickly!

After, we believe in global warming or not ...

This is an important element in favor of PCs on thick slabs!

[moulino51]

Moulino Nothing to say about the low temperature floor heating is not better for the homogeneity of heat and comfort of this fact.

It is besides in the project of "mirssa" and that seems to me essential for a house with DRC.

I was just making a remark when on the electric;) in your case of producer (but it must be said), the solution is quite logical and coherent.
But in case of non-production is viable ??? that's what I said nothing else;).

The electric boiler solution is rather used in the south of France, and very rarely at home in the north of France, it is for me a solution of waiting because project PAC / Water.
I also had in project: the construction of a mass stove, which was transformed with the acquisition of a Kachelofen "Alsatian stove" on which I am studying a water exchanger to reinject into the BT underfloor heating.
I would also like to point out that my work was carried out at 90% in self-construction in a former factory workshop, and that I sought as much as possible recycling solutions without hacking.

Regarding the AT LEAST 30 cm I was not far, the rt 2012 requires at least R> ou = to 8 for bbc and R> or = to 10 for BPOS (positive energy building 2020) or with a lambda 0.04 gives 32 cm of insulation and 40 for BPOS , but according to the wool you have a variable lambda from 0.042 to 0.032, so the 30 cm are rather fair;) (if lambda 0.032 then for R = 8 Insulation thickness = 8 * 0.032 = 0.256 is 25.6 cm; )) cqfd.

Thank you for taking the time to develop for Mirssa

It seems to me quite well your site moulino.

I give the access link to its homepage: http://herve.silve.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.htm it has been more than two years since I was not there, I see that it has been well updated with the standards of the RT2012.

I put 140 sqm Paris region and basically the forecast revolves around 7000 w

According to the site, and for my 180 m2, the calculations (with a ladle) gave me 10 to 11 Kw and the balance over two winters my returns a constant maximum power of about 6 Kw / h (the installation works in "all or nothing" without any regulation)

Regarding the stove look what cristophe has done here it speaks aisni that the same subject https://www.econologie.com/forums/petit-poel ... 10993.html there is also here https://www.econologie.com/forums/ecs-et-rad ... 10404.html .

Which is quite similar to my "Kacheloffen" project

@ mirssa: could you tell us if you intend to do everything, or at least take part in self-construction?

Nice project anyway

GS

[moulino51]

Who says MOB says low thermal inertia.

I'll be candid, but MOB? quésaco?



GS