Summer heat storage at Drake Landing Solar Community (Canada)

[dedeleco]

De heating-insulation / boiler-tariffs-okofen-why-it-is-so-expensive-t10825-20.html # p203910

Oh no Dede! This subject heating-insulation / storage-and-phase shift-geo-thermal-in-the-soil-t10470.html it is that of Obamot that I personally split from another!

It does not speak SPECIFICALLY about the Drake Landing Solar Community solution!

I insist on the fact that it is necessary to make a specific one ... really it is for "our good" to all!

Also I propose to admire and seek to improve it in a positive way this functional solution since 2007, which stores the heat of the summer underground to heat 52 pavilions winter, very cold, 1000m of altitude to the south from Cagliari to Okotoks, Alberta, Canada with a continental climate at the latitude of northern Belgium.
The summary is in French:
https://www.econologie.com/fichiers/par ... mrk29Z.pdf

the site in English:
http://www.dlsc.ca/how.htm

At any moment we can see the operation, the weather, the sun, the level of stocks, etc ...
http://www.dlsc.ca/how.htm
with much less sun on this day than on Paris, and still need to heat the houses !!

photos of the sky
http://www.dlsc.ca/photos/2007/septembe ... _index.htm
under the snow :
http://www.dlsc.ca/photos/index.htm
if you doubt you can walk in street view of google map without leaving your home:

Do you have precise coordinates of all their subdivisions?

on google map type:
drake landing Okotoks, Alberta, Canada
or:
drake lahttp: //maps.google.fr/maps ct = resetnding? Okotoks, Alberta, Canada

http://maps.google.fr/maps?num=100&hl=f ... CCAQnwIwAA

and google street view photo of solar panels and houses of Drake lading solar community on Drake Landing Common next to Drake landing road on Milligan Dr towards South East in the center of Okotoks Alberta Canada





This is a successful Canadian technology research project subsidized (infinitely less than nuclear) !!

In numbers :
52 2 Canadian pavilions floors of approximately 150m2 optimized to save with solar individual hot water (covering 60% of requirements completed by the winter gas) with large garages and 7,3mx7,3m 30m2 (800 from 2 on 2m52) of thermal plane solar collector on the roof of the garage, a collective management center with 2 buffer storage 120m3 balls (4,6m3 by house), and storage of heat in 144 15cm holes diameter 37m depth to 2,25m each others, on diameter 35 m (cylinder of 35 by 35 + 2m of depth isolated on the surface on 2m), holes grouped in 24 groups of 6 each.
So there is 97m drilling for each of the 52 pavilions, a shallow well, dug in Canada in 1h30 in the rock for 2000 to 3000 € according to Alain G.

So houses, pipes, balloons and sensors are much more expensive than drilling.

The original essentials are underground storage, in fact, a Canadian well heated in the summer for the winter and the rest can be different.

This storage uses the slowness of the diffusion of heat that slows down as the square root of time:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduction_thermique
as this slowing down on 3m in about 4 months, distance following the ground to a factor of about 2.


See as well :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusivit%C3%A9_thermique
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperatur ... %A4higkeit

So you have to accept losing free summer heat, because otherwise with the usual methods of insulated water balloons, much more expensive than land, there will not be much left over after 4 months.

The size of the storage depends on the insulation of the house, the climate, and the solar heat captured in winter as an extra.

[Christophe]

Ah, that's a good thing!

Thank you for creating this topic of synthesis, you can now the linker from the other topics that talk about thermal storage!

[netshaman]

Oh yes I thank you for having everything focused on this subject.
Good when we associate and we do it?

Because I believe this is the only way to get there.
I can see the trick: the members of the association get together and build for each of them a solar system comparable to that of dlsc in each member.

Another consideration: if ALL electric heaters are replaced by a similar system that has been installed in all houses, how many nuclear power plants can be closed?
Would it be worth it to inform politicians like Eva Joly no?
If she is elected, it would be a good way to do without a good deal of nuclear power.
Ideas for a program?

We must take charge of our future, and not wait for them to decide for us!
This is the democracy, the true: the people give the idea, and the policy applies it, but in France it is rather: the policy applies its idea without taking into account the opinion of the people.

[dedeleco]

This is the most realistic and realistic reaction !!

We must take control of our future, and not wait for them to decide for us!

The main difficulty is to drill (an investment that can be a deterrent if we make mistakes with unforeseen events) and also the circulation of rainwater and groundwater is unknown, a new problem for geologists who know only the resistance of the soil against water. cracks !!
These problems individually are very dissuasive !!
Example: Christophe is not convinced for his home, while he has solar panels and a water storage 70m3, a perfect set to store underground!
He fears the escape of heat with the underground water, as in the creek at the edge of his land!
This unknown field is very dissuasive, because if error, very expensive!

It can be sealed by liquid cement injection at the edge, but this has to be developed for small systems (compared to the usual large and expensive projects), with shallow wells of small diameter (approximately 20mm on 10m) as used to reinforce the soils by Utetek and geosec on their videos.

http://www.geosec.fr/
http://www.uretek.fr/
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post206775.html#206775
http://www.archiexpo.fr/fabricant-archi ... -3812.html

Also first those who already have a real Canadian well, must be encouraged to store summer heat for winter (and thus greatly reduce the heat pump bill, or even remove it, if it works), because all these unknowns are removed, and the investment already made!

Concretely, denis:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post206180.html#206180
has a beautiful Canadian well

2 times 50 m of 90mm pipes start 6m of profont!
renewal of my house in straw / earth, in anticipation a greenhouse of heating to accumulate the heat in ground, with extractor on programmer for the moment
the Canadian well is a great system, not so well auto-built without scam, only drawback: anti-commercial!

where it can store summer heat with rudimentary unpretentious sensors of the type used by Forhorse:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post205608.html#205608
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post206800.html#206800

Those who have good efficient Canadian well can make this summer storage for winter for very little investment !!
Even more it will become much more efficient, because with a much greater difference in T it will store much more heat than with a heat pump that can not cool the earth in winter from 5 ° C to 10 ° C then that the same earth can be heated from 40 ° C, from 13 ° C to 53 ° C

So first step, to convince Canadian wellslike denis, to try, for almost anything with unpretentious sensors !!

Also, convince to warm the greenhouses, easier because they do not need 20 ° C but about 10 ° C.

[Philippe Schutt]

http://ozonforages.free.fr/marche.htm#5 - Profitability of drilling.

Cost of drilling approximately for a depth of 15 ML.
The price of a drill may vary depending on the depth and terrain encountered.
On average it is necessary to count in the 1700 € HT.

on others forums, I found figures around 130 € / m, which more or less overlaps. for 100m it's 13 €, and it seems more realistic to me than 000.

On the other hand, it seems to me that the proportions of the hot cylinder must limit the diffusion of heat in the soil, therefore minimum external surface for a maximum volume. Always in this idea, it is better to group the thermal masses in 1 big cylinders rather than a cylinder by house.
Therefore the system is clearly more interesting when made for a subdivision where the configuration of the Canadian prototype.

With the pumps, the earthworks, the circuit in the house and on the roof and all the enslavement I suppose we can get away with 30000 € for a single house?

[navel]

I, for the construction of my house (in progress), I asked for estimates for drilling.

They answered me for 2 70m holes, cased the first 15 meters, and equipped with pipes for heat transfer fluid: 9300 € TVAC.
Typical quote for geothermal probe with water / soil heat pump.

I asked for a series of a dozen holes at a dozen meters deep, to be able to inject hot water for storage. They told me that the cost would be prohibitive, the length of casing (obligatory according to them at the beginning of drilling) would thus be multiplied, which would increase quite a lot the costs, and the pipe which they propose is not adapted to the high temperature envisaged.
In short, they no longer wanted to give me a price (my estimate for a dozen holes: near 20000 €)

And when I talked to my heating engineer with whom I was discussing systems, he looked at me with a little condescending and mocking air, smiling, saying that it was not done and that if it worked and that was profitable, it would be a long time all that would already be installed everywhere. No need to tell me it's a classic but stupid reaction.

As in my home, it is very quickly in psammites (Condroz) the idea of ​​trying a system D to dig myself holes was immediately abandoned.

In short, I finally returned to a conventional air / water PAC ...
I think that in order to get into that, you need an accumulation of favorable circumstances.

[dedeleco]

it requires an accumulation of favorable circumstances.

it is necessary especially people who do not copy like sheep of Pänurge without really understanding, capable of innovation and motivated like for www.dlsc.ca !!!!

Good luck with your short-lived cap (scam I was victim of, 3's life years ago) which I hope will not be a scam to 30000 € that does not work like for friends of my family !!

When a nuclear power plant for PACs have farted in France Fukushima (inevitable eventually) we eat radioactive steaks with emptied entire region of its population, we deign to look different without the current contempt, this remarkable solution, heating perpetual solar www.dlsc.ca, without CO2, without nuclear, without pollution, nor consumption (which makes run away the pros who seek only to make us consume PACs with breakdowns, maintenance and change very often) !!

[Philippe Schutt]

When I saw the pros put the systems of their suppliers, that's all. If tomorrow a supplier of boilers, PAc or solar thermal added an underground storage solution, they would ask it too.
This is understandable, nowadays everything must first be tested, certified, labeled otherwise it is the responsibility of the pro that is at stake. As the goal is to earn a living, we must limit the risks. It is also this spirit that the state promotes, under the beautiful names of "precautionary principle" or "prevention culture".

If I calculate the volume per flag, we have a cylinder of 8mx 8m considering that 1m of soil around the holes is useful. A network at 2m gives me 19 holes at 10m deep, 1 central, 6 at an 1er circle, then 12.
a depth of 10m in the earth is within the reach of the do-it-yourselfer:
http://boutique.shop-negimex.com/Tariere-fixe-D150-4

[sen-no-sen]

it is necessary especially people who do not copy like sheep of Pänurge without really understanding, capable of innovation and motivated like for www.dlsc.ca !!!!

Unfortunately, manufacturers are particularly reluctant to innovate (contrary to what one might think), it sometimes takes decades or even a century for an idea to be realized on an industrial scale ... it's sad!

Without government measures, we will have to be patient and wait until we have an ecological constraint to get things done.

[chatelot16]

to understand it would need given a little more specific

ton http://www.dlsc.ca/ do not inspire me confidence

I find the storage area a bit small to store on the year

I find the architecture of this city very badly fucked ... why receive the heat only by the garage and not by the roof of the house ... why 2 separated heat network? why not do the 2 fontion by the same network, to save the pipes and the losses

other things on the site make me doubt! why do they present as a photo things that are obviously only synthetic images? the thing seems ankle ancin so that there is real photo

you always bring us the same number of distance of diffusion of the heat, I do not care what it is necessary to quantify it is the quantity of energy which is lost ... and not only the quantity of heat of the which is lost before the winters, but also what is lost after the winters and which will have to be supplied to reach a useful temperature

basically the tank must be more or less hot all year! it is the steady state that counts ... it is necessary to quantify the thermal resistance between the storage area and the infinite (the rest of the earth)

if you believe in this possibility of storage by the ground shows us a whole calculation, until the result