My future boiler: from gas to wood ...

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
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kumkat
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My future boiler: from gas to wood ...




by kumkat » 08/03/11, 12:01

Hi people,

In my current occupations I am trying to define what to replace my Chaffo ... to G23e gas boiler from 1999, the heating body is starting to tire and I suspect it is the cause of my pressure losses on the network.
I like wood boilers, my prices scare away from my limited budget (a few k € max) and I pass my turn for heat pumps ...
I have a 120 m2 house from the 40s and 70s, insulation ... could be improved ...
I consumed 22000kWh during the 2009-2010 heating season and for the moment 14000kWh during 2010-2011 (thanks to the caulking of the conduits among others)
I have the ECS apart (accumulations of the same age) and I still hesitate to group everything together ...
Last edited by kumkat the 08 / 03 / 11, 13: 38, 2 edited once.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 08/03/11, 13:30

Hi kumkat:
I consumed 22Kw on the 2009-2010 heating season and for the moment 14Kw on 2010-2011 (thanks to the caulking of the conduits among others)

These units are weird and make no significant sense !!
14KW is a power watt = joule per second and therefore in a winter it must be in multiples of 10000KWh !!
Because the power of 14KW has worked for thousands of hours for example on the number of hours over 6 months is 24x6x30 = 4320h which gives 10KW of average power: 43200KWh
Probably you are less than half ???
But if you don't have a minimum of technical knowledge, you are ideal prey for scammers who talk nonsense!

In addition, low-end boilers such as the 12-year-old that you have are scams, with a real yield lower than what is written and designed to be changed every 10 years !!
More than 35 years ago I had a new boiler on my new house of the brand that you have, a real gas plant (why keep it simple when it can be complicated), uninsulated, which I changed before his death, in another insulated boiler, no more expensive, chosen for its technical simplicity and which 25 years later still gives satisfaction !!
Obviously it is not manufactured any more because too reliable by its simplicity !!
On another econology post, answering a question like yours on a well-defined boiler, I was surprised to discover that my boiler from more than 35 years ago, it continues to be done, almost unchanged , obviously, since it is an annuity for this type of boiler manufacturer with a lifespan designed to be changed often !!
All the faults of more than 35 years ago that annoyed me have been preserved !!
Boiler, not insulated, with instant hot water and expansion tank designed to be an annuity in repairs for plumber, and possible mode of regulation with external sensor, which is an absurdity !!

Also look at what I wrote about another brand on another post that I must find !!

But my simple boiler has become untraceable, since the few low-end manufacturers all have the same methods, designed for those who do not know the technique and have little money !!
Otherwise, to have better and simpler quality, you have to pay more, even if the boiler costs less to manufacture in reality, but since you don't have to change it often, you make the disappearance of the annuity in breakdowns pay dearly and in changes !!

However, often the breakdowns are secondary details that can be repaired yourself, driven by the expansion tank designed to lead to many troublesome breakdowns, which you can repair yourself !!
I am surprised at your sentence:
The heating body is starting to tire and I suspect it is the cause of my pressure losses on the network.

because in general the copper heating body has no reason to weaken with the gas which is not very corrosive, and in my opinion it is the expansion tank, which causes these problems, and 9 times out of 10, it is enough change it with a few small additional details and your boiler will work again for 3 to 5 years, lifetime of the membrane !!

It is all the interest to be interested in the technique, because if not the pro scammers take the opportunity to change the whole boiler, even for a fuse (numerous TV demos!) Or the expansion tank, him hyper- studied to die quickly !!

Me, I solved the problem, it became eternal, by mounting it as we did 80 years ago on simple boilers without electricity, in a word, as far as possible from the boiler !!
Result no more breakdowns !!
Look for my other responses to other post on gas boiler !!
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kumkat
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by kumkat » 08/03/11, 13:49

dedeleco wrote:kumkat:
22000kWh for the 2009-2010 heating season and for the moment 14000kWh for 2010-2011

These units are weird and make no significant sense !!
14KW is a power watt = joule per second and therefore in a winter it must be in multiples of 10000KWh !!
Because the power of 14KW has worked for thousands of hours for example on the number of hours over 6 months is 24x6x30 = 4320h which gives 10KW of average power: 43200KWh
Probably you are less than half ???


I did too quickly, well seen, it is corrected.

... in another insulated boiler, no more expensive, chosen for its technical simplicity and which 25 years later still gives satisfaction !!


could I have a model / make in MP so as not to advertise please?


I am surprised at your sentence:
The heating body is starting to tire and I suspect it is the cause of my pressure losses on the network.

because in general the copper heating body has no reason to weaken with the gas which is not very corrosive, and in my opinion it is the expansion tank, which causes these problems, and 9 times out of 10, it is enough change it with a few small additional details and your boiler will work again for 3 to 5 years, lifetime of the membrane !!


no copper on my heating body, it's "white / silver" metal I don't know which one but it rusts on one side


It is all the interest to be interested in the technique, because if not the pro scammers take the opportunity to change the whole boiler, even for a fuse (numerous TV demos!) Or the expansion tank, him hyper- studied to die quickly !!


already changed the vase and the valve, and now I would have to do a sludge according to the repairman ... without me!

thank you, go to the archives ...
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by dedeleco » 08/03/11, 14:12

"white / silver" metal

In my opinion it is tinned copper, to block its oxidation, given my memories and more recent glances at the sellers, and certainly not money !! !!
And the rust is probably the visible red copper which oxidizes to even redder Cu2O.

already changed the vase and the valve, and now I would have to do a sludge according to the repairman ... without me!

The expansion vessel causes the death of the bleeder degasser, safety valve, which leaks, or even of a few taps (overpressures) !!
My installation of more than 35 years is certainly more muddled and it works.
Look for the water leak:
overpressure safety valve, degasser, radiator, tap, seal, etc. .., which leaves clearly visible white traces of limestone !!
Unless the plumber is changed for a dead vase !!

A plumber made me the blow to put me a dead regulator !!
Result during overpressure of the network, 600 € of water lost with pipe blown up which lost 300m3 in my absence !!

The water is leaking a lot !!
To watch in operation during overpressure !!
It reminds me of my mother-in-law, the plumber did on purpose not to see such a trace of balnceh leak, the better to rip him off, and he pretended to discover it !!
Last edited by dedeleco the 08 / 03 / 11, 14: 21, 1 edited once.
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by kumkat » 08/03/11, 14:18

dedeleco wrote:
"white / silver" metal

In my opinion it is tinned copper, to block its oxidation, given my memories and more recent glances at the sellers, and certainly not money !! !!

I suck but still :-) I was talking about the color not the nature of the metal ... : Lol:


Look for the water leak:
overpressure safety valve, degasser, radiator, tap, seal, etc. .., which leaves clearly visible white traces of limestone !!

searched, not found ... I hope it's not within the walls ... : Cry:
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Gaston
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by Gaston » 08/03/11, 14:29

kumkat wrote:
dedeleco wrote:Look for the water leak:
overpressure safety valve, degasser, radiator, tap, seal, etc. .., which leaves clearly visible white traces of limestone !!

searched, not found ... I hope it's not within the walls ... : Cry:
If it is indeed the heating body (I had the case on an old boiler), the leak is almost undetectable because the water leaves entirely in vapor in the chimney ...
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by kumkat » 08/03/11, 14:35

How does a heating body change?
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 08/03/11, 14:39

In operation, you have to follow the pressure over time, and see where it leaks at max pressure (which is how much) !!
It can be a seal at the junctions with the heating body, which leaves less traces.
Looking at the heating body with a mirror you can see a jet of steam during operation, or even feel it with a flexible aluminum foil in front !!
If now they make a heating body that pierces quickly, then it's worse than over 35 years ago !!
If you locate the leak, solder on the leak will remove the leak !!
With me a boiler has eternal life !!
It is sufficient to correct the original defects.
Carefully check the degasser which can let out too much water with the gases.
Could it be a defect in the metal that has rusted on a radiator and the beginning of an inconspicuous leak ??
A pierced radiator is possible.
It's detective work.
That takes too long for a plumber.

How much is the speed of losses?
If there is a leak, sludge removal will not eliminate the leak !!
Last edited by dedeleco the 08 / 03 / 11, 14: 50, 2 edited once.
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by kumkat » 08/03/11, 14:44

I lose roughly ± 1 bar of pressure per week, I never top up above 1.5 bar
I checked everything that is accessible / visible, traps, valves, radiators, pipes, nothing found ...
I will take a photo of my heating body tonight ...
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by dedeleco » 08/03/11, 15:02

1 bar per week is not bad!
A steam leak at max pressure makes a typical steam noise also when heating the heater.
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