Poor insulation? And moisture in a wall?

[sebarmageddon]

Hello ,

several problems:

1 - dining room, the exterior walls are 25cm thick in large rectangular freestone and are insulated inside by a 1cm plate on which is glued polystyrene with a thickness of 4cm (it seems to me that it is called 10 + 40), therefore, on the facade is the front door, on each side of the door there are at the bottom plates of 10 + 40 a small opening with a mini round grid of 'about 5 or 6 cm in diameter, like the round which is visible in this photo, http://www.hellopro.fr/images/produit-2 ... 206958.jpg

question:
1 A - is the insulation good with 10 + 40?
1 B - the two holes made at the bottom of the 10 + 40 plates, which go through the insulation, but not the 25 cm stone wall, are these holes silly or not? (compared to insulation)



2 - bathroom,

a shower in the corner of the house having two sides with glass doors and two sides with tiling laid on water-repellent plaster tiles in light blue on the drawing, about 8 or 10cm thick and protruding from each side the shower of about 10cm,

between these tiles and the 25cm thick exterior wall in yellow in the drawing, there is a small air gap,
and the shower tray in red in the drawings was like this



the shower seems to have created humidity in the wall in waterproof plaster tiles, and in the exterior wall of the house, visible in black spray on the drawing
the rest of the bathroom walls in contact with the exterior walls of the house are insulated with 10 + 40, dark green lines on the drawing,
the bathroom is not ventilated, there was a hole at the top of the shower made in the wall with a grid on each side, but in winter the cold air fell directly on the person in the shower, I therefore blocked it, it was useless
since then, the shower has been replaced by an integral shower (the 4-sided shower, 2 glass walls + 2 in a kind of plastic)

2 A - the exterior wall of the house is damp, you can see it when you are outside, I think of condensation between the exterior wall of the house and the plaster tiles, since there is no insulation placed between, the problem being clearly in the area of ​​the old shower, I imagine that when we took a hot shower, the plaster wall would heat up, then with the outside wall cold, humidity or condensation (something like that) formed between the two
What do you think ?

2 B - to correct this defect, I would say that you have to remove the plaster tiles, then dry the exterior wall well, to finally put back water-repellent plaster plates on which polystyrene is glued to make insulation, that in do you think?

thanks for the answers .

[dedeleco]

See the other posts on econology and the endless discussions on this subject given the scientific errors by pros who discover for the first time, that in the walls we have the same phenomenon as in a distillation column !!
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post194590.html#194590

quick reaction:
The 40mm of polystyrene was considered good as insulation 30 years ago but bad now especially for after 2012 (15cm and more and perfectly waterproof without thermal bridges)!

Otherwise cut stones (from what period and in what) conduct heat or cold well (approximately 50 times more than polystyrene)
and therefore any hot water vapor in the hot rooms which reaches the inside of these cold stones will condense above and thoroughly wet the wall !!
So the vents worsen the phenomenon and they were probably put in the idea of ​​removing humidity by mistake, because already the hot air had to reach this wall made humid !!!
It is difficult to solve, because the slightest small hole or crack which lets a little air pass is enough to fill the base of the wall with water in the long run, but this water never leaves, because in an almost closed environment !! and therefore to see it go quickly we put air vents that let this water go quickly when the wall is not cold, otherwise it never leaves;
The only official solution is to make the insulation of the house completely waterproof as with the 2012 standards, with rigorous tests of tightness under pressure and not to lose heat with VMC double flow !!
The other is to ventilate and reduce your moisture release, little bathing and cooking !! Very difficult and inefficient.
Another is to ventilate your wall to the outside by making small holes in the joints between the stones, which let out the humid vapors avoiding to store the condensed water in perpetuity behind these very impermeable walls.
Otherwise the exterior insulation can solve, but expensive and more dimension stones.

Otherwise how is your basement because you can have moisture rising from the ground in the interstices of your cold wall and aggravating the problem ????

[sebarmageddon]

for the basement, in fact, there is a kind of cellar, an old thing.
above the cellar, there is a sort of void filled with stone, it is airy and dry.
above, is the bathroom floor
between the cellar and the bathroom floor, there are more than 3 meters.

rising damp could have been a lead, but fortunately, or unfortunately, in the case of the bathroom it is not

for the insulation, I suspect it's a shit, not thick enough the 10 + 40 ..., the whole house is like that, except in my room, in which I added some sort of woolen panels of 5cm thick rock + paneling, and I can feel the difference.
but hey, what you tell me shows me that it is worse than what I thought for the thickness ...

about the small round grilles placed in the insulation of the room, and yes, it is because it was evening saying wet, in short, very messed up in this house, things were badly done that should be redone, but will not be (it's at my parents' house)
the worst being in the hallway between the house and the garage, not even insulated, there is a radiator that heats up, and which must really eat ...

the cut stones are large blocks of limestone and they must be sacrament old (probably before 1870)
it seems to me the size is 80cm long for 45cm high and 25cm thick, they are in good condition

[dedeleco]

It is also necessary to check if there is not a slight water leak in the drainage of the shower water, as a bad seal, which may be enough to aggravate the problem by emptying the siphon under the tray in several hours. , water which will condense on the cold wall ???????
This has happened to me already and also worse, a poorly dried down after washing, full of water which made our room moldy, because almost nothing made it go from 90% humidity to 100% !!

Also the number of showers taken into account a lot. as I saw the case in my family with more than 3 hot baths per day and therefore a condensation not possible in a 2 rooms !!!

It is necessary to measure the degree of humidity and the temperature of the walls behind the placo -polystyrene. It must be very cold and therefore it is almost impossible to prevent condensation on it, except by doing nothing, neither showers, nor cooking, nor re-heating or to seal all the insulation thoroughly.
Sponge the shower and the walls well after a shower, decreases the humidity released.

[sebarmageddon]

I saw a problem, at the bottom of the shower tray, there had been water for some time, so with toilet paper, since this sucks water well, we saw that something was wrong,
suddenly, my father removed a piece of what was used to support the shower tray
below, there was humidity, but especially at the level of the pipes, there was a little water,
there may have been a small leak in the water inlet pipes, as there may have been a lot of condensation, humidity, but no stagnation at the drain
in any case, the plaster tile wall was very wet,
my father drilled a hole in these tiles, then the wall had the right to a blow of drying, the zibro walked a moment in the bathroom to dry all that a little,

today there is an integral shower, with which there is no more contact with the wall, it is along, but there is still a small space behind, which allows air movement,
and also this one being closed on the top, there is much less mist coming out of this one, it is a big improvement,

the trouble is that the plaster tile wall is probably not dry enough, or not even dry at all, and on the outside wall, from outside, we can see the humidity

i think the plaster tiles should be tacked, and the stone wall should be dried really well, but hey, will that be done?

the number of showers was not important

besides, about the vents in the wall of the dining room, supposedly that it would have reduced the humidity of the wall according to my father (it's crazy what I believe ...)
if I had waited after my parents my room would have remained with the same poor insulation so I don't believe the insulation will be improved in the house

[dedeleco]

The first point to test for sure is whether your moisture is only coming from inside or elsewhere as a small roof leak or rains on the facade or basement.

So try not to take showers and cook with steam in the kitchen for a few weeks !!
(take the showers in the swimming pool), or be absent (in winter).
If it becomes dry, the origin is from your presence.
Then ventilate, VMC or VMC double flow.

Otherwise, the problem may never be resolved.

[sebarmageddon]

yesterday there was a little humidity at the bottom of the bathroom wall just next to the bottom of the shower,
for me it is clear that it is an insulation fault
it is likely that in addition to the condensation inside the bathroom, there is also condensation between the plaster tile partition and the exterior stone wall.

in the corridor there is also an insulation fault, yesterday there was a lot of humidity at the bottom of the stairs

on the left in brown it is a door, in the middle in brown it is also a door, on the right there is a double-leaf window, in red it is the radiator, in blue it is humidity ,
there is no insulation in this corridor, exterior concrete block wall, inside, there are 1cm thick plasterboards, on the ceiling it is the same, and the roof is kinds of corrugated sheets in a kind of concrete, the floor is tiled, there are tiled plinths, and finally about 1 meter high there is paneling
on the other side of the middle door is the garage without insulation either.
I think that the heat is rising, it does not reach the hollow of the steps in the lower right part, the result is humidity, I tell myself that in this case, the best would be perhaps a kind of underfloor heating, ie a copper pipe which would pass in the ground, under the tiling to make a small heating inside the corridor, next to the French window, but hey, without insulation. .

Finally in this house it's the same everywhere, my parents do things, do the finishing, and then you have to touch it more, instead of doing well from the start, it's poo that should be changed afterwards, but as the finish is done, and we must leave ...
it makes no sense

above the bathroom, there is another floor

[dedeleco]

Not encouraging this description, but what worries me the most is this:

the roof is a kind of corrugated sheet in a kind of concrete

because once more than 20 years ago this type of barn cover was made of asbestos-laden asbestos !!
So above all, do not cut or saw it so as not to breathe asbestos in it !!
http://www.plomb-amiante.fr/amiante-fib ... ciment.htm
http://forum.doctissimo.fr/sante/pollut ... 3801_1.htm
If the DPE realizes it, the value of the house plummets.
Not sure that he realizes it, because I saw a house with garage walls stuffed with white asbestos pass the asbestos diagnosis without any problem !!!!!!!!

Randomly, to the right in brown, at the foot of the "double-leaf window" I think I can guess that the floor of the steps is concrete or cement which makes a good thermal bridge which is added to the air leaks around the perimeter of this double-leaf patio door, and therefore the humidity of the air in this house condenses on this cold point into a high humidity of liquid water, which also flows downwards at the coldest point of this corridor without insulation !!
Putting underfloor heating amounts to demolishing everything, and then it makes more sense to insulate this floor properly and to close the leaks in the door window with waterproof beads, and the same for the other windows and doors.
Once with less leaks from windows and doors, a possible temporary solution is to have an insulating layer on the floor covered with carpeted or rugs and to insulate the walls without any insulation with thick lined plasterboard. ??
But this type of house to improve is almost like rebuilding this type of house
You show that it is useful to think carefully and to learn about the technical level before making changes in a house by not seeing only the superficial appearances.

[sebarmageddon]

for the kinds of sheet metal, it's fiber cement I think, bought around 2000, I don't know if there was still asbestos in this kind of sheet metal at that time
these sheets are above the garage only, the house has a slate roof

the floor of the corridor, the garage, and the steps are in cement covered with tiles
the French window is rather well sealed, moreover, it is recent (2009?)
for underfloor heating, it would be just at the level of the bottom step, but it's the same, imagining that this pipe is put in place at the outlet of the radiator, this heating would only work when the radiator was working, or, the radiator would probably turn less than what it would take to heat the bottom of the step, so problem probably not completely resolved
I realize that these problems are really shit ...


for insulation and all the rest ..., it's clear that there is a lack of thinking when things are done, they do, and then my mom sees the flaw, complains about it, lacks pot, everything is already done, and to do it again, that would require breaking what has already been done

[dedeleco]

For the steps try a carpet or inexpensive insulating mat, maybe there will be less condensation ???? (it may get wet).
Otherwise try a dehumidifier for 100 to 150 € in the hallway, fridge upside down)
Unless there is a deep water source or resurgence under the house like I saw once !!!
http://www.leroymerlin.fr/mpng2-front/p ... 57160690#9
http://www.rueducommerce.fr/m/ps/mpid:M ... CAM1283945

Sometimes it is enough to decrease the humidity a little to avoid any more condensation.