Choice of radiant heater and inertia Atlantic / Thermometer

[lolo_geotec]

Hello,

Despite the discussions already launched on the forum, I do not really have the information I needed to make my choice so I allow myself to open a new topic.

That's it, I have a village house in Roussillon on 3 levels. Each level is heated with reversible air conditioning. Nevertheless, I will need to put an auxiliary heater in a room that was used until then very occasionally but now will greet our first child.

The room is 10 m² and has a high ceiling of about 2.80 m.

Putting a new reversible air conditioning is not possible for reasons I will not dwell on.

So we will put a radiator. The discussions I had with different electricians and resellers leave a fuzzy one. Some people tell me that a radiant panel is quite sufficient level of comfort, and others tell me that an inertia would still be better. There is a hell of a difference in price.

especially that an element often returns, an electric heater whatever the output technology, is neither more nor less than a resistance, the only difference is the "quality" of heating on arrival. therefore the quality of heating of a radiant is it less good than inertia?

For my part, I wanted to move towards radiant panels:
- to an ATLANTIC model SOLIUS
- to a THEMOR model AMADEUS

In both cases, power of 1500 Watts saw my ceiling height.

What do you think? What would be the advantage of an inertia compared to a radiating panel, since the energy saving advanced as argument by the sellers is only a utopia?

Thank you for your clarification on the subject.

[dedeleco]

an electric radiator regardless of the output technology, is neither more nor less than a resistance,

is scientifically perfectly accurate for me, if necessary, in a room rarely used as yours, smaller, I take the cheapest with thermostat, so radiator fan with low noise thermostat for 10 20 € is perfectly enough with 500, W, or 1KW (or 2KW little justified for 10m2) !!
Especially in Perpignan where it is not cold and a small room 10m2 very quickly hot with a blower, much faster than with any other more expensive device ..
The thermostat ensures a low temperature air inlet that is never overheated if set to 20 at 23 ° C and spreads with the blower everywhere evenly.
Choose a silent fan, as for PAC.

I am amazed by commercial claims that want to sell radiators very expensive, not better and useless, more fragile, since I have grilled in a house that I bought with this type of radiator 400 € the resistance Spare crame the least spider in !! that I refuse to pay, rent for the manufacturer, while blowers at 15 € are as pleasant and much stronger.
Other expensive radiators of the same power are scams to sell expensive the same device with a beautiful scientifically false speech!
Even worse, we sell cheap devices voluntarily with nonsense (without thermostat, overheating, etc. ..) just to push people not happy, without scientific training, to buy very expensive, not to have these flaws!
Inertia is always too short to have no interest and is only a utopia.
Even the so-called radiators are no more radiant than any other central heating radiator at the same temperature with as much and more convection!
All the vocabulary is scientifically false and misleading, because the only true radiant are the infrared with resistances visible at 700 ° C, never called radiant !!!
The heating is full of misleading claims and scams as for me, sell me PACs knowing voluntarily that out of future norm, they will not last more than 8ans, irreparable after and to buy again !!!!!

[aerialcastor]

Dedeleco how can you dare to say such things ....

Advise a radiator blowing in a room where there is going to be a baby, knowing that it is brewing the dust, that it makes noise and that it is that there is more uncomfortable.
In addition it does not cost 10 / 15 € but easily 2 3 times more expensive.

Dedeleco or how to make an asthmatic.

Obviously all electric heaters have the same efficiency.

But the question is not there.
What you need is not to heat but to be hot.
And here all the electric heaters do not have the same comfort.

The most pleasant is the radiant heating.




The convection heating causes a feeling of discomfort that pushes to increase the temperature for the bearing, and the hot air will stick under the ceiling, increasing heat losses with the outside.

As for the radiators with inertia, their only advantage is to be charged in heat during the period of the off-peak hours and thus to decrease the price.
The disadvantage is that they are not reactive.

- to an ATLANTIC model SOLIUS
- to a THEMOR model AMADEUS

These are almost the same products.

[dedeleco]

The blower thermostat is identical to a reverse air conditioner PAC blowing air on its exchanger and that makes the same noise and less dust if it was not filled with before!

Sider, the misconceptions, it does not brew dust, archifaux, others heat more without circulation of air and create the dust much better (personal experience) !!

On an asthmatic dust falling on it is much worse, burnt on overheated resistance without air circulation, other than convection on the other radiantly called radiant radiators.
Radiant and other heat a strong surface (if not radiation and especially convection) and therefore we risk burning much more!
The comfort is the same at the same temperature surfaces and resistance.
The blower equalizes the air temperature very quickly, like a heat pump if we limit this temperature to that desired in the room 20 24 ° C with the thermostat!

The most expensive radiator has no advantage in comfort than the cheapest air T and the same resistance!
Measure these operating temperatures before buying !!

It is pure scam to believe that for a baby you have to pay the most expensive astronomical price for a simple resistance!

Especially in a room of 10m2 with little space and where a child may be burned on a radiant 70 ° C !!

Personally I use the blowers as a supplement everywhere and the radiant and other scams that I own (coming from the owners before me) are broken down, dust burnt at first, too hot and too slow to heat the air !!


Finally, I'm tired of seeing real commercial scams scams to sell very expensive and useless! especially after being scammed with a very short CAP without telling me

[aerialcastor]

Thermal comfort is a little more complex than that.
It is not only pure physics that intervenes, but physiology, the feeling.

The blower thermostat is identical to a reverse air conditioner PAC blowing air on its exchanger and that makes the same noise and less dust if it was not filled with before!

Who said that a pac x / air was comfortable?
Air heating can be considered only under two conditions: low pulsating air velocity and low temperature delta between the forced air and the ambient air.

Your heating blower to have a sufficient flow while keeping a delta of low temperature must have a speed of high drive.
This is high speed will increase the evapotranspiration of the skin (so cool it) that's why it takes a higher air temperature for comfort equal.
And who says speed of higher plusion, said fan that turns quickly said noise.
On the other hand, the pac takes the air outside and is therefore only blowing inside. Which is not the case with your soufllant, who sucks air on one side to blow it on the other. That's what's brewing the dust.

Radiant and other heat a strong surface (if not radiation and especially convection) and therefore we risk burning much more!

that's why there is a protection grid. Besides, it also prevents dust from falling on it. With a radiant (recent in any case) there is never a smell of cremated dust.
Moreover, even now convectors have their grid vertically to avoid this problem.

The most expensive radiator has no advantage in comfort than the cheapest air T and the same resistance!

Thank you to finally admit that you do not know anything about it.

The operating temperature (felt) and the average between the average radiant temperature and the air temperature (in the absence of wind).

Top = (Tr + Ta) / 2

The average radiant temperature is the average of the surface temperatures of the room.
Namely that a too large temperature difference between its surfaces is a factor of discomfort. This is why the radiators are placed under the windows, it avoids having a cold wall.

As usually a room has at least one wall facing the outside, if there is no radiant heating on this wall, it has a cold wall. To have an equal comfort it is necessary to overheat the air.

And I'm going to repeat myself, as hot air rises, with heating only by convection, the air will go under the ceiling and increase heat losses.
So with forced air heating it is necessary to increase the temperature of the air to compensate for the cold wall and the thermal losses of the temperature delta more important between the outside and the inside.

In short, as Dedeleco is the king of contestation (based on nothing, although he often uses the word scientifically) the simplest is to try.
Go to the supermarket buy a radiator blowing (keep the receipt and open the box carefully) And try. If you find it comfortable very well, it will also serve as a hair dryer.
But there is something that tells me that he will return to the box.

[dedeleco]

On the other hand, the pac takes the air outside and therefore only blows indoors

Archifaux, my PAC recycles the indoor air like in many hotels, otherwise we put out the calories, absurd !!

It is a psychological question for aerialcastor that allows all the scams to sell very expensive what does not cost anything: a resistance !!
and a quiet fan and a thermostat that we often forget in the expensive dear by placing it in the wrong place because without sufficient air circulation, by convection where the air climbs well lime to the ceiling to stay there instead of horizontal air ventilation of air at room temperature to 20 ° C.

For 10m2 in Perpignan, not cold, in winter, 500W 1,5KW, it's absurd to put expensive in psychological scams.
Try to 10 at 30 € and if not satisfied you will be able to buy a more expensive scam.

The inertia never have an inertia of the day for the night, impossible physically as they do not make tons (very expensive mass stove) !!
A scam more expensive, everything is good to pay dearly !!!

This is high speed will increase the evapotranspiration of the skin (so cool it) that's why it takes a higher air temperature for comfort equal.

completely derails, because the air is just homogenized at 20 ° C without receiving air on you (like your cap) and so the air not overheated remains wet and more pleasant only with areas that are too hot and others cold.
There are silent blowers at low speed !!

My short-lived rip-off scam has been replaced with a blower giving full satisfaction to all in my family.

[dedeleco]

Me, at home, I can not even put the scorching scammers at 400 € the resistance, in their box without leaving a big huge task on the wall!

And the stronger blowers have never returned to their box at home.

[aerialcastor]

The "me I" are not enough to validate a scientific theory.

[lolo_geotec]

Good evening,

in launching the debate I did not want to create controversy.
Thank you in any case for giving your point of view on the subject. in the meantime I continued the investigations with other persons forming part of the body of the building (electrician, lead, bricklayer etc ...), thus having a totally impartial opinion and a precious experience on their lived experience.

In the end, the opinions are more in the direction of aerial beaver (sorry dedeleco), especially on the comfort of heating. After that, one point for dedeleco, taking an expensive appliance does not really make sense for an auxiliary heater, and the first price, from a brand of recognized quality, is more than enough. Inertia heaters are really useful in the case of "central" heating (for a large room).

I will choose a radiant 200 TTC from Atlantic, at a professional dealer (not Castorama or Leroy merlin).

I will tell you about my feedback on this topic if you want.

Good night.

[aerialcastor]

Do not worry about the controversy with Dedeleco every time.


You can tell him that the sky is blue he will not agree.

take an expensive device does not really make sense for an auxiliary heater

I will choose a radiant 200 TTC from Atlantic, at a professional dealer (not Castorama or Leroy merlin).

I never said that taking an expensive device was better, I say that taking a radiant is better than a blower even if the first is more expensive.

Otherwise pay attention to buying in a pro network, it is rarely economical. The pro always benefit from a discount (up to 30%) and do not pay the VAT.
Which means that for an individual, it is usually cheaper in a DIY store with an equal product.
However it is very easy to negotiate prices.