Rush of an EDF manager

Various experiences made by members of the forums concerning in particular small household appliances and energy management.
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elephant
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Rush of an EDF manager




by elephant » 13/08/08, 22:05

I publish you without planning (and also without bluntness) a rant that a Walloon MP sends me. Too bad it was not signed, but finally. It must be said that there is a lot of truth.

After 3 months I finally received a polite response from the Walloon environment minister Paul Magnette to whom I pointed out that his pla solwatt was a shame, that it would have been 1000 times better to allow economically weak households to invest the half or a third of the money to save energy.

Quantified example:
10.000 euros invested in a dilapidated house (change of boiler, new frames, 20 cm of glass wool + aluminum in the attic, thermostat with clock): saving 1000 euros per year on the energy bill
22000 euros invested in PV: savings of 350 euros on the electricity bill + double in green certificates + around 6940 euros in premiums. Find the mistake

finally, I deliver the text in its raw state:

Blow of mouth of an engineer responsible EDF concerning the 20 h on TF1

An illuminated gave us a series of lessons on energy saving.

Taking us for deep mental retardation or precocious senile, he explained to us that by cutting all the night lights of our electrical devices,
we could save 15% of our consumption.
False, we would save 2 to 3%

The same explained to us that by replacing our traditional lamps with energy-saving lamps, we could save 30 to 35% of energy.
False it is 4 to 5% that we can save

It is obvious that if the house is equipped like that of the great-grandfather, that is to say just lamps and no fridge, microwave, washing machine, dishwasher, dryer and so on. , because compared to the consumption of all this equipment that of the lamps is "peanut".

To top it off, a brilliant journalist from TF1 (what an informative channel) took over and made the total savings that could be made according to these enlightened criteria: 15% on the night lights + 35% on the lamps = 50% savings of energy! ...


She did not go so far as to say it, but we who are particularly stupid, Guessed that tomorrow, if we followed these instructions scrupulously, we could shut down half of the power plants! ...

We almost died idiots, but why haven't we been told all this before!

To continue in the deep debility, the TF1 girl's then clarified to us that for the remaining 50%, we could power them with solar panels
that produce 'green' electricity, illustrating his point with a photo of a beautiful house with a small solar panel behind.
There, I almost looked for a weapon, because we had never seen such a level of misinformation, such monumental nonsense.

Indeed, to produce this remaining 50%, if we base ourselves on an average consumption of 6 Kw (a conventional subscription without electric heating), it would be necessary that each house has 140 meters of solar panels for a cost of 89 628 *

Calculate the return on investment.

In the chapter 'it's good for the planet', it should be added that solar panels, we don't know what to do with them when they reach the end of their life,
because they contain lots of silicon and other heavy metals that are very polluting.

Do not think above all that I am against saving energy, I am 100% for, when they are realistic, but please no poisoning of this type in the middle of listening, it borders on indecency or malice.

To continue in the intox, do you know Biville sur mer in Seine-Maritime?
It is a small coastal village near Dieppe, where 6 wind turbines have recently emerged from the ground.
Six latest generation machines which occupy 4 km of our Normandy coast and whose blades peak at 85 m in height.
Each wind turbine has a maximum power of 2 megawatts ... when the wind is blowing hard.
It's not much compared to the 2600 megawatts that come out of the nearby nuclear power plant all the time, but it's always that, especially when it's very cold.

Too bad all the same that this renewable energy is so expensive and uncontrollable (4 times more expensive than that of the atom), but that's okay, EDF has to buy it (and expensive).

But back to our 6 wind turbines; since a few days ago there is only one wind turbine turning, the other 5 would be they deprived of wind?
No, there has been no wind for several days, which is generally the case when it is very cold, or very hot.
It is nature, man does not yet dictate his law to him.

But then, if there is no wind how to explain that one and only one wind turbine turns?
The answer is very simple: We want to be made to believe in renewable energies, so we do not hesitate to cheat to hide the bad side.
Well yes, it would not do well for the inhabitants of the region who have not yet accepted this in their landscape, to see all the wind turbines stopped when it is - 4 degrees

So, quite simply, we run a ... motor (yes it is possible, by giving it current!).
It consumes a little electricity, but it makes you believe that it produces energy.

It's time to stop harping on the weather every night 'it's good for the planet', because there, we know too much or is good and bad, and we will end up thinking that those who giving advice is, in addition to being dishonest or incompetent, the most dangerous.

'Clean' electricity without smoke, without CO2, without atoms, available when we need it, at a price that does not destroy our jobs and our comfort, it does not exist, apart from hydro power plants .

In 20, 30 or 50 can be ....

In my entourage, I do not know anyone who cleans laundry, or who starts his empty dishwasher ...

So it is high time that the media and their servile striped vests that serve us, stop taking us for the dead, with oriented, truncated reports and lessons in good citizenship that do not hold water.

Ah yes, I was going to forget it: I even heard "the innocent Evelyne Délias", tell us, after her weather page, "that we must not put too much heating in the car because it consumes fuel. and "it's not good for the planet".

Evelyne, if you had taken mechanical lessons, you would know that the heating of the car recovers the heat of the water from the engine cooling circuit and this hot water, it is absolutely necessary to cool it by passing it either through the radiator main (the one behind the radiator grille), either in the radiator of the passenger compartment heating, otherwise the engine will die!
If this water is not sufficiently cooled, it is even the fan of the cooling circuit which must take care of it by consuming electricity to turn!
And that ... 'it's not good for the planet' by cons!

We could also mention biofuels, presented as Green fuels while engaging in this path, is an ecological disaster and
human in the short term: smelling the windfall, large agro-food groups, are currently clearing entire forests and replacing crops intended for human consumption with these Plantations intended for the production of 'green' fuel (50% of the production of corn of the USA will have been diverted this year for this production, or famine in Mexico, first buyer of this corn).

Did you suspect this perverse effect of biofuel?

But this is another debate and I have palpitations already just thinking about it ...

Above all, especially, please ... INFORME!



Overall, this text is consistent with what I have said several times about these forums: let's stop worrying about saving the candles: let's start with big budgets!
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elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
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by Christophe » 13/08/08, 22:09

Uh we agree on the elephant background (see the calculations of an official of the RW: https://www.econologie.com/comparatif-en ... -3858.html ) but I don't understand: aren't you supposed to work in solar PV now?

https://www.econologie.com/forums/elephant-s ... t5415.html

You shoot yourself a little in the foot there right? : Shock: :?:

ps: your "mail" I also received it several times in semi spam mailing ... that TF1 tells bullshit it still shocks the world? : Mrgreen:
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by elephant » 13/08/08, 22:21

You shoot yourself a little in the foot there right?


1) fortunately, not everyone is connected 24 hours a day to econologie.com, and then anyway, this is just the beginning, we are doing research in thermal.

2) that's what makes me scream: no way to get people who have done at least 5 years of university to tell sensible things! : Evil:
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elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
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by Hackel » 13/08/08, 23:21

The EDF engineer, he is nice, he also clearly explains to EVERYONE, that it is not EDF that pays the additional cost of purchasing wind, photovoltaic, cogeneration, biomass, thermal and price electricity excessive in the overseas departments (while the locals pay the same as you and me).

It is all of us who pay this additional cost to the Contribution to the Public Electricity Service line of ALL the invoices sent to us by this dear EDF (you can check).
THANK YOU.

Me too, misinformation annoys me.
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by Christophe » 14/08/08, 00:20

elephant wrote:1) fortunately, not everyone is connected 24 hours a day to econologie.com, and then anyway, this is just the beginning, we are doing research in thermal.


Pkoi luckily? Wouldn't it be nice? : Cheesy:

Otherwise I salute your diversity ... by the way you may not have seen but I heard that the RW had already exceeded its quotas for the PV ... you con / infirm?

elephant wrote:2) that's what makes me scream: no way to get people who have done at least 5 years of university to tell sensible things! : Evil:


Don't yell too much it's the same everywhere, see the bioethanol scandal ( https://www.econologie.com/forums/a-propos-d ... t5893.html a very interesting doc will follow this subject).

In fact generally, the longer your studies are the more you are convinced by certainties (shit sometimes) ... and the more difficult it is to question the "system" that formed you ... After all, studies c is, at least in theory, supposed to bring a "higher" social level ... So pkoi questioning the system that feeds you?
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by jonule » 14/08/08, 10:41

uh ... because you ate too much? : Cheesy:

this response from the EDF guy is real SPAM, I didn't think they went that far! : Lol: a bit like the text against wind turbines, supposedly placed "secretly" in letter boxes! MDR ... it looks like a loud cry from an old prehistoric proletarian who is fed up with everything because he has been able to do nothing concrete so far, abused to the block of media propaganda: he yells at TF1, French channel, no but it's a scandAle! we can feel his palpitations! : Lol:

in any case apart from screaming against low-energy light bulbs and bio-fuels, falling completely into the trap, the only thing it defends is its nuclear power plants! I bet he doesn't pay his electricity and he doesn't live near a power plant ...


then "Above all, above all, please ... INFORM YOURSELF!" :P
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by Christine » 14/08/08, 11:26

+1 with Jonule (if yes)

We have to put things into perspective: we will not be able to meet our energy needs with 3 wind turbines and 2 solar panels, but finally nuclear power is not the Alpha or the Omega either.
Basically, it looks like we are still at the belief stage. When are the wars of religion?
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by minguinhirigue » 14/08/08, 11:26

What this engineer says has the advantage of being very clear, and very well presented.

But several things annoy me anyway ...

The "candle light savings", the 30 to 35% is the saving on the consumption of the lights themselves, yes it is only 2 to 3% of the total of our consumption, the same 15% on the days before, it is also compared to the overall consumption of the devices concerned, it is 4 to 5% in the house if desired. And we can also make low consumption appliances (when they need to be changed of course), it is 20% for a fridge for example. If we do not achieve a saving of 10 to 15% depending on the house, I will be surprised.

Then when we talk about solar but not only photovoltaic and that we start to return hot water in dishwashers and washing machines, I believe that substantial savings are made on the consumption of the resistances of these devices. I don't know exactly, in the forum I think there was talk of 30% savings on these devices. Much more for the electric cumulus. Oops, we have to be around 20% overall electrical savings, but that's the sales!

Moreover, for both photovoltaic and wind power, they certainly have higher costs than older generation nuclear power plants, but do not tell me that the troubles of EPR and the huge R&D budgets that have been invested are more competitive than Spanish solar power plants, don't tell me either those who extract uranium ore in Niger are paid and work in correct safety conditions ... I would like to know the price of electric kWh with ore extracted from of French miners trade unionists !?

Likewise, renewable energies have specific powers less strong than the old centralized technologies, but sufficient for autonomous power supplies, with which people can live by becoming aware of their needs, the network only serving to redistribute individual variations with less losses because less redistributed current (part is used on site).

For pollution, I find it difficult to compare heavy metals recyclable for the manufacture of new panels and ultimate radioactive waste, recyclable only to make a chemical war new-age and poison the food of the populations that we do not appreciate, to failure to poison these fellow citizens ...

Finally for the question of solar plans, I agree that there are many other things to do, such as insulating buildings and managing direct solar contributions for heating, much cheaper and much more efficient than n ' no matter how much gigawatt. However, I think that once these measures have been taken, we can think about photovoltaics and even dream of boosting R&D to accelerate the output of solar cells today in the lab, able to achieve 40% efficiency. Only solar R&D is not behind the army's budget ...

And it is not in fifty years, when EPR will have farted in the face, that we will have to say we should have thought about it before.

Last remark, less able to touch those who read, in 1999, the ecological footprint in France was 5,26 ha per inhabitant (world average: 2,3). Biocapacity of France: 2,88 ha per inhabitant. Today I don't know, but it got worse.
So our current comfort, unless we find a way to get there by saving, we must accept to sacrifice it partially, and not try at all costs to satisfy it, because if not, our grandchildren may not really do more be able to afford it.
Last edited by minguinhirigue the 14 / 08 / 08, 11: 37, 4 edited once.
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by Christophe » 14/08/08, 11:31

Small complement on the watches and their energy cost: calculation of the cost of electric watches

He also forgot to say that Edf employees receive free productivity bonuses ... or rather consumer bonuses, it is less politically correct but so much more true!

Edf clearly has no commercial interest in lowering electricity consumption ... except in its advertising spots ...

Besides, Edf is the 1st promoter in France of geothermal energy whose overall energy yield is questionable, not to say smoky ... For EdF it is better to consume a nuclear kWh than an oil kWh ...
Last edited by Christophe the 14 / 08 / 08, 11: 38, 3 edited once.
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Bibiphoque
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by Bibiphoque » 14/08/08, 11:33

Hello,
Well, a little information on uranium 238: its total lifetime, often zapped by energy producers, with all the different states and the type of radiation emitted, as well as the half-life of each of the by-products. decay:


Image

@+
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This is not because we always said that it is impossible that we should not try :)

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