What energy to propel the car of tomorrow? IFP

[Christophe]

An interesting and synthetic flash animation on the energies (liquid fuel, petroleum or biomass, gas, electricity) of the car of tomorrow:

http://www.webstyle.fr/ifp/Anim_IFPMoteur/IFP.html

2 synthetic captures from this animation:




Remember that the IFP is, again, a reference ...

For me it is they who have the most credibility vis-à-vis forecasts on the future of engines (already because they have oil tankers, who have power, in their pocket ...)

[pb2488]

Very interesting indeed ...

already because they have the oil tankers, who have the power, in their pocket ...)

Oil tankers have power? Can you please develop? Which ones (OPEC or oil companies)?

[Christophe]

I wouldn't fall into your pb trap ...

I mean that the oil companies have the power of technological decisions and that considering their colossal financial means the competitors are rare ...

Making an eco-car prototype is relatively easy for an industrialist ... marketing it on a large scale for the general public so that this prototype really has an impact ... is another ...

Here are the different research voices from IFP today: http://www.ifp.fr/axes-de-recherche/veh ... es-moteurs

[pb2488]

I wouldn't fall into your pb trap ...

??

I mean that the oil companies have the power of technological decisions and that considering their colossal financial means the competitors are rare ...
Making an eco-car prototype is a relatively easy thing for an industrialist ... marketing it on a large scale for the general public so that this prototype really has an impact ... is another

The power of technological decisions is (indirectly) in our hands, we consumers, this is what Jancovici explains very well in the video that you put online:
https://www.econologie.com/voiture-a-1l-aux-100km-telechargement-4142.html
And there are a number of diverse and diverse industrialists / investors wealthy enough in the market to market on a large scale. (The oil companies do not sell cars or control oil either: the stakes are too high and dangerous, it has been 40 years since the states, producers or importers, took over. D elsewhere, the oil operator's margin counts for almost nothing on the price of the liter at the pump)
If there was a "demand", it would be a while since "eco-cars" would have taken over the market.
Only to create this demand, we must either make people aware of the current energy / climate situation, or increase its price.
Unfortunately, for a long time, driving at 130 km / h over 900 km (and recharging in 2 min) with air conditioning, 5 passengers, costs less and less ... not easy to reverse the trend.
When in fact, you should drive less, slower, fewer, less practical, less comfort, less autonomy.
How many want that? How many want to ride differently? How many have a smaller, less powerful car than their parents had at their ages? Of course people want to consume less but they also want to go faster and faster, more and more, more and more comfort ....
The problem is there, oil lobby or not (in addition, they, moreover, invest a lot in the search for alternatives. It is not because there would be more oil that there will have more profit to make).

[Christophe]

We did not have the same reading of this video apparently.

Putting everything on the back of the so-called no consumer demand is a mistake ... or even a fault!

Were there simply attempts to market? It is arrogant to know how to read the minds of potential consumers but your remark does not surprise me ...

It's funny but I "know" at least a few million French and Belgian people who would be interested in a downsized car (thermal or electric is not the subject) making 20 hp and consuming 1L / 100 (or a few kWh) at 2 or 3 places and sold between 5 and 10 € ...

These millions of people are people who go exclusively from the city or peri-urban to go to work and who want a second car ...

This car would sell like hotcakes! Only it is the economy that blocks ... as Janco says ... look again there ...

[Cuicui]

It's funny but I "know" at least a few million French and Belgian people who would be interested in a downsized car (thermal or electric is not the subject) making 20 hp and consuming 1L / 100 (or a few kWh) at 2 or 3 places and sold between 5 and 10 € ...

Rolling out the Velectris VOYAGER: heavy quadricycle (350 kg with Lithium batteries), 100 km of range at 100 km / h, four wheel motors. Price close to 10 K €.

[parfaitelumiere]

I plan to change my car, we are going to be my girlfriend and I leave on a Citroën C1 first price, but it is clear that a light vehicle would have been preferable, for example if the Loremo was available I would make the choice even if it meant paying the double.
I am already hesitating between a new C1 petrol and a second-hand A2 diesel at the same price.
but I already had so many worries with my second-hand cars that I lean towards the choice of the new, even if for a c1 that does not really motivate me, but let's say that for the same price I prefer a new average car than a second-hand car a little better at the origin, knowing all the nasty surprises that one can have.
it will be while waiting for better things, like loremo or others, which will be while waiting for my own vehicle if I get to the end of the idea.

interesting this wood diesel .....

[pb2488]

We did not have the same reading of this video apparently.

There is only one possible reading in my opinion .... if tempted that we can play a video .... ;-)

Putting everything on the back of the so-called no consumer demand is a mistake ... or even a fault!

Or maybe it's just reality, hard to admit for some ...

It's funny but I "know" at least a few million French and Belgian people who would be interested in a downsized car (thermal or electric is not the subject) making 20 hp and consuming 1L / 100 (or a few kWh) at 2 or 3 places and sold between 5 and 10 €.
These millions of people are people who go exclusively from the city or peri-urban to go to work and who want a second car ...
This car would sell like hotcakes! Only it is the economy that blocks ... as Janco says ... look again there ...

No matter how I re-re-watch it: It's not what he says. He says that it is the demand that is blocking and surely not the oil companies or other malicious or blind industrial lobbies !!!
For proof:
There are small cars on the market (with much better characteristics than the 2CV), examples:
- Dacia Sandero 1.2 16v: 7800 €
- smart Fortwo Coupé Pure mhd 45 kW softip: € 9
- Kia Picanto 1.1 CRDi Motion: € 9
- Etc ..... (Between 5000 and 10000 €, there are a lot of small cars with 3 times of CV than the 2CV)
These types of cars have been around for a while (I'm not even talking about unlicensed cars) and while they do sell, they haven't flooded the market despite the millions of potential buyers you "know" (by the way. , in town and in the suburbs, it is better to favor public transport anyway).
If the average consumer bought his 60 hp car "yesterday" which was 5 L / 100 and accounted for about x% of his monthly budget, "today", if he has to change it and he has the choice between a 60HP car that makes 3 L / 100 or a car that does the same as the previous one of 5L / 100 but which now has 90CV under the hood, which one will he choose? In the majority of cases, the second seen that he does not have a great ecological conscience and that x only decreases (by comparing the comparable). This is exactly what JM Jancovici explains:

You have to work less and less to afford the energy so "we" consume more and more and "we" do not ask the manufacturers of 2CV which consume 1L / 100.

The "we" that he repeatedly cites is US, the consumers (demand), who are part of the economy. This is why he says that the problem is not technical but economic (supply and demand are economic parameters). He also explains the same thing in his book.
If there was a demand from millions of people wanting to drive a "modern 2 CV" (and there will be one one day, necessarily), it is obvious that the manufacturers would adapt the offer. There is no reason for it to be otherwise.
Cdlt

Ps: Obviously, it is certain that the majority of people in the forum would like to ride in "modern 2CV", I am also part of it (although to go carp fishing with my big scabbard ... not convenient ... lol) but it is not the reflection of the reality.

[parfaitelumiere]

the sandero, we had looked a little, but the LPG version is interesting only thanks to the ecological bonus, because apart from that, the consumption, the pollution and the weight are quite in the current averages, suddenly, at the moment thanks to the 90 years of citroën, it's more interesting to take a C1, a pity that they do not do it in LPG version, that would have made 2000 scrappage bonus and 2000 ecological bonus ....
If we ever take the plunge, it will be for 2 years the time (I hope) that the finances will get better and that the loremo (or another) is out in France.
I saw a M5 carbon bike, it's very expensive, but it's beautiful: 8,5 kg of weight-performance ...

[pb2488]

8,5 kilo .... it's not heavy, mine must be 13 I think..lol