Hybrid electro-diesel submarines since the 30 years

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Christophe
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Hybrid electro-diesel submarines since the 30 years




by Christophe » 19/03/09, 12:33

Some photos of the permanent exhibition of the small (500 tonnes) electro-diesel attack submarine, the Argaunaute built in the late 50s and installed in La Vilette since 1989! (a beautiful retreat)

This will make defenders of electric propulsion "dream" (or cry) ... and hybrids claiming that it is a "modern" technology and supposedly "incompatible" with diesel engines ... It is known that the under sailors were all running unleaded ... : Mrgreen:

The electro-diesel submarine dates from the beginning of the XXth century but experienced its industrial boom in the 30s.

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I did not measure (and for good reason) the but rod of the battery elements should be around 35-40 mm ... we do not realize this in the photo.

Unlike the German submarines of World War II (which brought the technological bases to the "sequel"), the Argonaut (there were 2 similar ones) was a serial hybrid: everything went obgligently through the electric motor. The German submarines were parallel hybrids with direct propulsion by diesels.

Here is the type VII C "spearhead" of the German Navy:
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1 of 2 V12 Pielstick

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The diesel diagnostic table:

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The list on the left and on the right are the oil pressure gauge, water / oil temperature as well (above all) than the T ° at the outlet of each cylinder in order to quickly detect a malfunction). "Ready to use" pencil injectors were hung on the "wall".

The noise in diesel propulsion must have been unbearable ...

The arrival of nuclear propulsion was a monstrous technological leap! As much for the performance of submarines, their strategic roles (launchers of vehicles, by the way there are 4 ... see controversy sarko / royal in 2007) as for life and comfort on board (marked improvement).

Modern buildings much bigger: up to 36 times heavier for the big Russians of 18 tonnes, the Kursk was one ...

This tour costs only 3 € and is definitely worth it if you are interested in naval or mechanical engineering. On the other hand, go there early in the morning and not in the "full" period because if there are people impossible to turn around on the passage! I have more photos if you want ...

For those interested in the subject, a reference site exists, it is ultra-precise: it includes the detailed history and the route maps of many WWII submarines !!

http://www.uboat.net/

ps: there was a class of submarine named argonaute, these are not the same buildings http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=298

Here is an "other" tour of the submarine: http://leclubclio.free.fr/sous-marins/p ... aute/a.htm
On video http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2of3f ... -scie_tech
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by Hydraxon » 19/03/09, 13:52

This will make defenders of electric propulsion "dream" (or cry) ... and hybrids claiming that it is a "modern" technology and supposedly "incompatible" with diesel engines ... It is known that the under sailors were all running unleaded ...


Frankly, said like that it is not very serious. We all know that it is possible to make electricity from any heat engine. But the priorities are not the same on a submarine and a car.

The submarine necessarily needs electricity for its torpedo launchers, and also for silent propulsion. The current car needs diesel battery charging / low speed electric motor use to consume less fuel than conventional diesel. "Incompatible" means that's what we don't know how to do.
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by Christophe » 19/03/09, 13:55

Yes, hence the "" my dear ...

Obviously, between the army and private cars, neither needs nor budgets are the same ...

Propulsion represents more than 95% of the electrical energy of a submarine, so I think it's not so far from cars ...
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by Christophe » 20/03/09, 23:44

In the genre, beautiful mechanics, France had "tested" a "submarine cruiser" the Surcouf: a monster for the time ... sunk in "friendly fire" by mistake in the Pacific!

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code: Select all

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surcouf_(sous-marin)


Otherwise in the bizarre floating or flowing object genre, here is a photo taken at the Musée de la Marine in Paris last week (visit with Nono and Rulian):

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by Christophe » 20/03/09, 23:54

Another interesting piece of information: Focke Achgelis Fa 330 micro helicopters were fitted to some uboots at the end of WWII for observation:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Achg ... Bachstelze
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/focke_330.php

Do not look for neither the engine nor the tank, they were towed by the submarine!
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by Leo Maximus » 21/03/09, 13:02

Hello,

If you come to Saint-Nazaire you can visit in the old German submarine base the French submarine Espadon. It is a Narval class submarine, very inspired or improved copy of the German XXI type submarines. It is a diesel / electric with schnorchel. The swordfish is afloat in the lockhouse under a concrete roof several meters (10?) Thick:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_sous- ... nt-Nazaire
http://www.mairie-saintnazaire.fr/pages ... spadon.php
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/espadon/index.htm
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/es ... racter.htm
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/es ... alites.htm

The largest diesel electric submarines built during WWII were the Japanese I-2s, which carried several seaplanes with folding wings:
http://www.histoiredumonde.net/article. ... rticle=678
http://www.pacerfarm.org/i-400/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400_class_submarine

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by Other » 21/03/09, 18:38

Hello


The noise in diesel propulsion must have been unbearable ...


It is not the noise that is unbearable, what is hard for the ears is when the diesel works at Chnorchel and that the tube is held flush with the waves, there is a valve to prevent water from enter the tube, the diesel engine draws its air into the cabin it does not take long for it to become depressed, then when it opens in pressure (quite a bit harder than a rapid descent by plane)


Another interesting piece of information: Focke Achgelis Fa 330 micro helicopters were fitted to some uboots at the end of WWII for observation:



I had the chance to try a gyrocopter towed by a car on a rotor track with two blades (with small balast at the end of the blades), which is the longest is to put in rotation the rotor, once well gone it goes up like an elevator and if you pull too much on it you pick up almost vertically from the car which pulls you it gives the impression that you are going to lift it behind, arrived at the end of the track the car stops it must be posed in back it is impressive as that is maneuvered, the car turns around you take advantage that the rotor turns again quickly enough it takes off almost instantly ..
the first time you are afraid to hang the towing vehicle after a few sessions you master well, it is the way to practice before getting into a Gyrocopter.

Andre
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by Christophe » 22/03/09, 09:36

Ah André always on top, thank you for these details!

Leo Maximus wrote:Hello,

If you come to Saint-Nazaire you can visit in the old German submarine base the French submarine Espadon.


I lived more than a year in Guérande and I did not find the time to visit the base ... pffff am stupid :( I hope to do it during next vacation!

Leo Maximus wrote:The largest diesel electric submarines built during WWII were the Japanese I-2s, which carried several foldable wing seaplanes


Ah yes not bad !! But as for the overcoat, I was wondering: how were the aircraft engines "watertight"? Ah unless they were not and therefore required a long "flight preparation"?
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by Leo Maximus » 23/03/09, 11:48

Christophe wrote:
Leo Maximus wrote:The largest diesel electric submarines built during WWII were the Japanese I-2s, which carried several foldable wing seaplanes


Ah yes not bad !! But as for the overcoat, I was wondering: how were the aircraft engines "watertight"? Ah unless they were not and therefore required a long "flight preparation"?

The "life expectancy" of these planes was a few days to a few weeks so corrosion was not the main problem ...
Today, corrosion by seawater remains a big problem with Canadairs which cost € 16000 an hour to fly against € 5000 with Trackers which "walk" in fresh water. (Source senat.fr)
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by Christophe » 23/03/09, 12:41

Well, it's not the corrosion of the engine that I was thinking of, but being able to simply start it: an engine filled with water generally has trouble starting ... : Mrgreen:

So I thought of the tightness of:
a) oil pan
b) air intake

An oil pan is, I think, not made to withstand pressure bars ...
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