1000 km: Plane or car?

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dreamer
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1000 km: Plane or car?




by dreamer » 04/10/07, 01:37

Good morning or good evening.
I do not necessarily post here, but qd I feel, like tonight, a little lonely against everyone, this is the only place I have in mind to come and seek some comfort from people who think like me.

So that's the story: I just came back from having a drink with (friends, and at the end of the evening, the discussion started on ecology.

The reason was that we wanted to visit 2 friends in the corner of Bordeaux (from Belgium) and that I showed my reluctance to choose the plane, for my "green principles".
Which led to the formation of me "against" the 4 others, passing as svt for an "extremist", followed by the usual excuses of "you have a mobile phone? Well throw the pcq it polluted to be manufactured" or "Do you drive? That too you should avoid" etc etc .... the usual bad faith of anti-ecological arguments which consist in saying "if you are not 100% green, you are not at all"

We will say that I am "used to it" but hey, it's with close friends, it's harder to support :(
Finally either, let's move on to the emotional and depressive side which are personal, I come here to ask what is the difference between a plane trip of 1000 km for 3 people, and the same trip by car.

Because there are a lot of things at stake: speed, price (thank you rayanair for allowing us to fly 1000 km pr for a ridiculously low price: /), the ease, the need to have the car and drivers etc ....

I just found this while surfing quickly on google:
http://autresdelices.blogspot.com/2007/ ... risme.html

Of which:
Take the time to look at the greenhouse gas emissions, depending on the transport, for an equivalent distance:
- boat: 0,2
- train: 3
- bus: 25
- road car: 60
- city car: 100
- short-haul plane: 100
- long-haul plane: 60

I guess it's for one person.
But I was so surprised to see such a small difference between the car and the plane : Shock:

So I take this opportunity to ask you from what distance and what number of passengers is it REALLY unthinkable (for someone with green tendencies) to take the plane, and from that it becomes what others tell me , ie chicanery, or bad faith (because yes I also ride in the car, I do not use the bike to do 1 km because I have my scooter etc so I know myself that I am far from being perfect :| )

Finally, there it is,
I don't know if I was very clear, but thank you for your answers.
(Then anyway, it did me good to dump it in here because otherwise I tend to turn it around over and over again, and come to think negative things like I'm all alone. against tlm, that nobody understands anything, that as long as I live I will have this kind of "confrontation" where I am probably the only one to come out badly, because pr others it is "harmless" etc etc)

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by elephant » 04/10/07, 08:26

these figures amaze me, I had heard of a modern aircraft consuming about 1,1 liters of kerosene per person per 100 km, which would be equivalent for you three to 3,3 to 100, which n is not that bad.
That said, to go to Bordeau, I go by van and I take the opportunity to bring back some pinard! Let's combine business with pleasure! : Cheesy:
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by nonoLeRobot » 04/10/07, 11:20

The plane has many other faults from a greenhouse gas point of view.
and: "We see that the total due to the aircraft approaches 3 times which is due to CO2 alone"

You can see more info here:
http://www.manicore.com/documentation/aeroport.html


In addition if you are 3, you must divide the rejections of the cars by 3. But hey it's sure that the car is not great either.


But actually, having green beliefs is not easy and I completely understand the problem of all or nothing. Besides, I think that econology is trying to avoid this flaw.

Good luck
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Re: 1000 km: Plane or car?




by Christophe » 04/10/07, 12:35

In the extremist genre, it's more your friends who aren't you?


dreamer wrote:I guess it's for one person.
But I was so surprised to see such a small difference between the car and the plane : Shock:


Well not exactly ... the car alone in town is worse than the plane. Some arguments based on the A380 here:
https://www.econologie.com/avions-et-co2 ... s-715.html

Now the plane must be filled ...
The figures you have are probably by the ton.km or passenger.km

elephant wrote: I had heard for a modern aircraft of consumption of the order of 1,1 liters of kerosene per person per 100 km, which would be equivalent for you three to 3,3 to 100, which is not so bad.


1.1 it seems to me very little ... since the A380 which is the most economical plane reported to the passenger would consume it (assuming the assumption of 1 ton for a return trip Paris-NY is right)

402 L for 11 km ... this gives us an average consumption per passenger of 700 L per 3.43 km.


And here is the conclusion of the same article:

Here I stop to say that it seems to me that the figures announced in this article are either eroded or that air transport, of mass over long distance, is less polluting than road transport ... Yet the authors of the 'article did not really state that.

The major problem of the future is indeed land transport and the increase in the global car fleet.


ps: at the level of pure economic cost, if a lowcost makes the connection to Bordeaux, the car is not even "conceivable" ...
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dreamer
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by dreamer » 04/10/07, 13:21

Thank you for your answers ^^

I continued to search and it is true that everywhere we find that the difference is not huge.

Obviously, you have to think about the rest: noise pollution, fallout on the regions around the airport (I am: s planes pass over my house in summer in good weather, I am 25 km from the airport), influence of NOx released into the troposphere, influence of streaks on sunshine, etc.

But hey I feel more "reassured" if I may say so, even if the ideal remains the train, but hey .... we do not have 150 € to slam each one: s
Sad reality, it will change with the carbon tax I hope.

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by Christophe » 04/10/07, 13:51

dreamer wrote:But hey I feel more "reassured" if I may say so, even if the ideal remains the train, but hey .... we do not have 150 € to slam each one: s
Sad reality, it will change with the carbon tax I hope.


When we compare the price of the train with low cost Ryanair style, we can clearly say that the SNCF does not care about the mouths of its customers ...

On the other hand, when there is an increase in tolls on a "competitor" section, there it always aligns itself ... upwards obviously ...

Ha well yes ... must pay the premiums ... of coal ...
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by freddau » 04/10/07, 14:50

MMH,

always the same comparison.

the ademe has transparencies for comparisons between travel modes.

I found this on the new site.
http://www2.ademe.fr/calculette-eco-deplacements/

I also have this in pdf:
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... rajets.pdf

A car filled with 4 pers. is always better than a plane and .. as efficient as a bus.
Last edited by freddau the 04 / 10 / 07, 14: 58, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 04/10/07, 14:55

Yes I think the same ... always the same questions ... but hey it means that people have trouble finding the answers ...

Otherwise there is also the famous (but piped) SNCF comparator:
https://www.econologie.info/?2006/10/30/ ... de-la-scnf

ps: when you say "new" site do you mean which site? Because precisely the calculator of the ademe I had indicated on one of the last news, https://www.econologie.com/semaine-de-la ... -3468.html
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by freddau » 04/10/07, 15:00

oh

new site: in fact I haven't been there for a while.
And there, they redesigned the site so I allowed myself to say new.

The pdf is good and allows to compare thanks to graphics but I can't find them anymore on the current site.
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by Christophe » 04/10/07, 15:02

Ok you're talking about the Ademe site so :)

Nice .pdf :) I did not know!

By cons, I have a little trouble entering the last 2 pages ...
page 10 is it from PARIS I guess?

Do Marseille and Nicois people know that there is a TGV? :D
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