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Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

published: 02/02/20, 09:43
by Christophe
A summary table that compares, well at the wheel, 3 energy storage technologies from renewable energies:
    Conventional charge / discharge battery
    Fuel cell via Hydrogen
    Biofuel (BtL) in a heat engine

Too bad, for information, it lacks oil (which has a cost UPSTREAM of the well itself ...) but also fuel cells with integrated reformer but also CO2 (gray in particular) ...

Battery_VS_H2_VS_Biocarburant.jpg
Batterie_VS_H2_VS_Biocarburant.jpg (146.43 KiB) Consulted 9246 times

Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

published: 02/02/20, 11:17
by moinsdewatt
So batteries have a royal future ahead of them, right?

Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

published: 02/02/20, 11:44
by Christophe
If we consider only the performance of the storage chain yes ... but the reality is not as simple as long as we want (and know) to make a coherent analysis!

To start the costs per kWh stored are not in this table (but we can easily find them elsewhere ...)

As I have said for a long time: the return on use of renewable energies is less important than that of fossil fuels since the energy source is free. However, this yield must be linked to the process costs (installation and maintenance)!

A low yield associated with a low cost of "capturing" renewable energy is not a problem since the renewable potential is enormous and far exceeds the needs of humanity!

Finally, such storage of renewable energy at a reduced price makes it possible to fill their main shortcoming: intermittence ... and therefore ultimately improve their profitability ...

Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

published: 02/02/20, 16:15
by Janic
Finally, such storage of renewable energy at a reduced price makes it possible to fill their main shortcoming: intermittence ... and therefore ultimately improve their profitability ...
except that it is this storage that is precisely the problem. It's a bit like building cars without having roads.

Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

published: 02/02/20, 16:40
by Christophe
Janic wrote:
Finally, such storage of renewable energy at a reduced price makes it possible to fill their main shortcoming: intermittence ... and therefore ultimately improve their profitability ...
except that it is this storage that is precisely the problem. It's a bit like building cars without having roads.


Punishment: reread my previous message 3 times and reformulate it ... : Cheesy:

Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

published: 02/02/20, 18:26
by Ahmed
At the risk of having to copy your "previous message" 3 times, I find some strange things:
the return on the use of renewable energies is less important than that of fossil fuels, since the energy source is free.
I naively believed that oil, gas or coal were also free, since nobody makes them ...? Then, the cost of capturing renewable energy is not that negligible, it seems ...
Perhaps it is an awkward expression which does not correspond to what I can understand ...

Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

published: 02/02/20, 18:52
by Christophe
Ahmed wrote:I naively believed that oil, gas or coal were also free, since nobody makes them ...?


You don't believe my son!


Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

published: 02/02/20, 18:54
by Christophe
Ahmed wrote:Then, the cost of capturing renewable energy is not that negligible, it seems ...


Did I say it was? I simply said that it is better to store renewable energy with a lower yield and a low cost than a high yield with high cost ...

That's all!

Ahmed wrote:Perhaps it is an awkward expression which does not correspond to what I can understand ...


I hope I have enlightened you?

Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

published: 02/02/20, 19:25
by Ahmed
No need to speak louder: I have no hearing problem! 8)
On the first point, the rent effect exists, of course, but it also applies to renewable energies: the sun does not shine everywhere as much, nor does the wind blow fairly where you want ...
On the second, I find it hard to follow ... so without comments. What interests me is the advantage of the battery over the fuel cell ...

Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

published: 23/04/20, 09:21
by jean.caissepas
To read: An article which talks about the energy cost of the well at the wheel, with a nice diagram:

Image

The full article here: http://acti-ve.org/le-rendement-energet ... e/2017/05/