Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972

Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?




by Christophe » 18/10/18, 16:01

Urban tolls already exist elsewhere in the world but the idea is about to be implemented in France: 2,5 to 5 € per day anyway!

An alternative vehicle that is less polluting and bulky will therefore quickly pay for itself, but one can wonder what use is made of the funds collected by this "green" toll?

https://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2018/10/1 ... _23564583/

City tolls may soon be installed at the entrance to cities

In Paris, Marseille or Lyon, the passage to an urban toll could cost 5 euros.


The government intends to facilitate the establishment of urban tolls at the entrances of large cities, to "limit automobile traffic and fight against pollution", according to a copy of the draft mobility policy ( LOM) published Wednesday, October 17 by the information site on public policies Context. According to the site, this is the final grind.

The text provides for the possibility of agglomerations with more than 100.000 inhabitants to install an urban toll at their entrance. The official text calls this last "congestion tariff", notes Le Figaro. It will be collected by the mobility organizing authority (AOM) at the local level, generally cities or communities of municipalities. For Île-de-France, it is about “Île-de-France Mobilités”.
A "multiplier coefficient" for large vehicles

It is up to the AOM to define the price of the toll and its hours of application, continues Le Figaro, who was able to consult the entire document. The text provides for a ceiling of 2,50 euros, which can be doubled in towns with more than 500.000 inhabitants. This is the case for Paris, Marseille and Lyon. Vehicles considered as non-light could also be assigned a "multiplying coefficient at most equal to 4, depending on the category of the vehicle".

Packages could also be applicable, or even free, especially for drivers "whose home or workplace is located in the area subject to congestion tariff", states the text. Free access could also be applied to vehicles of general interest, belonging to the Ministry of Defense or providing public transport, specifies Le Figaro.

The text also mentions a "teleservice" system so that users can pay "the amount of the tariff before crossing the perimeter of the zone", adds the daily.

The mobility orientation law, in which this text sent to the Council of State is inscribed, should pass next year before the Parliament.
Anne Hidalgo doesn't say no

Transport Minister Elisabeth Borne had already mentioned the possibility of facilitating the establishment of urban tolls, as is the case in London or Milan. In the British capital, one of the most polluted cities in Europe, drivers of the most polluting cars have to pay a tax ("toxic charge") of around 10 euros per day to drive in the center. The city has already applied since 2003 an urban toll ("congestion charge"), from Monday to Friday, with exemptions for electric cars and very low emissions.

"Today, the law already gives this possibility to local communities, but only on an experimental basis and for three years, which is too short in view of the investments to be made. This must be remedied," Elisabeth Borne explained to Les Échos in January.

"It will be the local elected officials who will decide", confirmed François de Rugy on BFMTV this Thursday morning.

The measure intends to give local players the means to reduce congestion, increase the use of public transport and fight against pollution. First opposed to this idea, fearing an effect of segregation between Ile-de-France residents, Anne Hidalgo no longer said no to an urban toll in Paris, according to Les Échos. On two conditions: the establishment of compensations (reduction of the price during off-peak hours, financing of free public transport), and that there is consensus at the level of Grand Paris.

The president of the Île-de-France region (and Île-de-France Mobilités) said she was "resolutely against". 'This would cut the region in two by increasing the social and territorial divide. On the one hand, there would be the wealthiest Parisians and metropolitan residents. And then the others, especially the most disadvantaged Ile-de-France residents. They are already discriminated against because they often have old vehicles and do not have the correct Crit'Air sticker to travel in Paris. This toll would strengthen their feeling of exclusion, "she said in the columns of Le Parisien.
0 x
Ono
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 4
Registration: 07/05/17, 11:04

Re: Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?




by Ono » 18/10/18, 16:13

Does it really work to change habits?
0 x
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?




by Ahmed » 18/10/18, 16:22

It all depends on what is meant by "efficient" ... If by that we want the wealthy categories to be able to circulate again quietly in the city for a symbolic price, but excessive for the greatest number, we can bet on a certain efficiency. : Mrgreen:
For my part, I would take the problem upside down: free public transport as common goods would be a non-coercive measure and those who wish could always resort to the use of their personal car at the corresponding costs. This kind of device would not tackle income inequality in any way, but would not constitute an additional burden for the less fortunate, usually the most impacted by selection by money (1 € in the pocket of a rich person is worth a lot less than the same € in the pocket of a poor man).
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749

Re: Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?




by sen-no-sen » 18/10/18, 17:09

Let's say that the best would be the implementation of urban tolls funding free public transport, but my little finger tells me that we will not necessarily be entitled to this last point. : roll:
As of today, no polluter-pays measures of a national dimension have seen the light of day.
The price of fuel should reach 2 € / l by 2022 without any serious compensation for transport appearing.
SNCF prices are only increasing with low-priced services ...
In Lyon the bus ticket is € 1,90 ... constantly increasing, but other than that the fight against global warming is the absolute emergency,make a planet great again! : Lol:
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
User avatar
Gaston
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 1910
Registration: 04/10/10, 11:37
x 88

Re: Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?




by Gaston » 18/10/18, 18:16

Ahmed wrote:For my part, I would take the problem upside down: free public transport as common goods would be a non-coercive measure and those who wish could always resort to the use of their personal car at the corresponding costs.
To become an efficient alternative to the car (outside the few cities well equipped with metro or tram), public transport needs fewer cars (otherwise they are stuck in the same traffic jams).

Merely free public transport may not be enough to encourage enough motorists to abandon their cars for public transport to run properly.

The example of London shows that the duo of urban toll + high-speed bus lines (even if they remain chargeable) makes transport considerably easier.
0 x
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?




by Ahmed » 18/10/18, 18:19

Wouldn't the best way to decide the matter be to try? 8)
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
Gaston
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 1910
Registration: 04/10/10, 11:37
x 88

Re: Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?




by Gaston » 18/10/18, 18:24

Ahmed wrote:Wouldn't the best way to decide the matter be to try? 8)
Certainly.

We can also draw inspiration from the results of those who have already tried abroad : Mrgreen:
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972

Re: Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?




by Christophe » 18/10/18, 18:36

I am absolutely against free public transport for a reason of basic psychology: humans generally respect less what is free ...

However, public transport is already the seat of plenty of incivility (human and material) ... their free access would increase this phenomenon ...

You should know that public transport is already subsidized to the tune of about 2/3 ...
0 x
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749

Re: Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?




by sen-no-sen » 18/10/18, 19:07

Christophe wrote:I am absolutely against free public transport for a reason of basic psychology: humans generally respect less what is free ...

However, public transport is already the seat of plenty of incivility (human and material) ... their free access would increase this phenomenon ...

You should know that public transport is already subsidized to the tune of about 2/3 ...


It is not a question of gratuitousness but of transfer of capital, instead of injecting hundreds of billions into the automobile sector, the objective would be to channel this flow in order to reinvest it in public transport.
This would have the advantage of drastically reducing GHG emissions, pollution, road accidents, and lowering the cost of road maintenance, ultimately it would generate huge savings due to the removal of negative externalities.
There are municipalities where public transport is already free as in Gap (05) ... without much success due to competition from cars.
The only way is the iron fist in the velvet glove: increase fuel prices at the pump to force motorists to take public transport and redistribute the windfall in the form of a subsidy to public transport players.
Do not be fooled, in the future it will no longer be possible to have one car per person, the future is car-sharing and rationalization of travel and multi-modality (ie: bike, bus , metro, tram, train) ...

The big concern is that in the absence of an energy constraint, the public authorities only put in place cosmetic measures with great speech ... the result of such a lack of anticipation will not happen keep waiting, we will find ourselves facing an energy depletion with a model based on mismanagement unsuitable for the future situation.
On a large scale, this translates into a rise in social tensions ...
See the subject:https://www.econologie.com/forums/societe-et-philosophie/thermodynamique-et-montee-du-populisme-l-italie-et-l-energie-un-cas-d-ecole-t15790.html
1 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: Urban tolls to 5 € or 10 € in France soon?




by Ahmed » 18/10/18, 19:24

Christophe, can you imagine what I think of your "basic psychology"? : Lol:
This kind of behavior is not inherent to human nature (?), But only reflects the social discomfort and violence of which young people are particularly victims: it is then easy to speak of incivility, just to be a blast. the most visible. "When the sage shows the moon, the fool looks at the finger"
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "New transport: innovations, engines, pollution, technologies, policies, organization ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 171 guests