New car scandal? Collusion between German manufacturers?

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New car scandal? Collusion between German manufacturers?




by Christophe » 25/07/17, 11:44

Yep ... I don't really see the concern (there is no deception of the consumer and impact on the environment as for the Volksvagate) Then industrial collusion is common (and when it is official it is called a standard :D) ...

But if they say it is that it must be serious ...

German auto industry shaken by new scandal

The European Commission is examining a suspected cartel between Daimler, BMW, Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche.
The German government, already very embarrassed by the diesel scandal, is on alert.

It is potentially the biggest economic scandal in post-war Germany. According to Friday's magazine "Der Spiegel", German car manufacturers have maintained "since the 1990s" a cartel aimed at agreeing on a whole series of equipment, starting with the diesel engines already hit by the Volkswagen scandal. "This is not the work of a few rare criminal managers of the Volkswagen group, but the result of secret agreements of the entire German automotive industry," writes the magazine, which refers to "more than 1.000 secret meetings" between executives from Volkswagen, Daimler, BMW, Audi and Porsche over the past five years only. After the first leaks, Friday afternoon, Volkswagen fell 4,2% on the stock market, BMW 3,4% and Daimler 2,1%. BMW denied all of these accusations on Sunday.

Credibility

The government of Angela Merkel, for whom the automobile industry, the spearhead of made in Germany, is a reason of state, is on alert. "The credibility and the confidence of the entire German automotive industry are nothing less and no less," said Economy Minister Brigitte Zypries on Saturday. "Cartel agreements would be an added burden for the problems we already have with the auto industry," added Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt. The government invited industry on August 2 to a summit aimed at solving the scandal of engine manipulation and avoiding a ban on diesel in German cities.

The overwhelming revelations of the "Spiegel", which is based on a Volkswagen self-disclosure document to the European Commission and the German Cartel Office, should complicate matters. The 60 working groups - "GT combustion engines", "GT diesel engines", "GT seats" ... - which met secretly between Stuttgart, Munich or Wolfsburg have obviously left nothing to chance.

For example, when the development directors of the five German brands decided in April 2006 to agree on AdBlue tanks, this liquid which makes it possible to clean up diesel, with a "target size of 17 to 23 liters". Companies could thus save “up to 80 euros per vehicle”, according to a presentation quoted by “Der Spiegel”. If possible, these tanks should be produced by only two equipment manufacturers ... The magazine evokes other agreements on subjects as precise as the maximum speed of the convertibles for the opening of the soft top.

Nothing prevents manufacturers from speaking to each other, in particular to agree on a position on new standards. Or to make acquisitions authorized by the authorities. As in 2015, when the German manufacturers bought the navigation software publisher Here. This time, the stakes are quite different: the flagships of German industry have apparently agreed to put their competition on the back burner behind the backs of customers and authorities. In addition, the "circle of 5", as he called himself, would have refused access to his club very closed to foreigners including Renault or Fiat ...

Volkswagen, which self-reported on July 4, 2016 to the European and German authorities, recognizes itself that a "suspicion" exists of "illegal behavior in cartel matters". The European Commission said on Saturday that it is examining the information it has received.

Self-denunciations

By selling the wick, Volkswagen (with its subsidiaries Porsche and Audi) hopes to escape a new fine after those of more than 20 billion euros bailed out with the "dieselgate" in the United States. It is also the case of Daimler who would have also denounced himself. The Stuttgart group has some expertise. Last summer, he was one of the heavy goods vehicle manufacturers, along with Volvo Renault, Iveco and DAF, having received a record fine of 2,9 billion euros. The German MAN, who had denounced himself, had been spared.


https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-servi ... 103788.php
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Re: New car scandal? Collusion between German builders?




by Christophe » 25/07/17, 14:21

Ah again a nasty cartel: https://www.moniteurautomobile.be/actu- ... mands.html

: Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

Seriously, the historic collusion between the government, the oil companies and the manufacturers is undoubtedly much more serious and detrimental both to humanity and to the climate ...
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Re: New car scandal? Collusion between German builders?




by Christophe » 25/07/17, 14:30

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Re: New car scandal? Collusion between German builders?




by Macro » 25/07/17, 15:57

But frankly they have nothing else to fuck the journalists and the courts .... They are idiots as beacons ... Or I am wrong .... It's been several decades that the manufacturers share equipment and parts detached to see complete vehicles between them ... The last small Mercedes van is even manufactured at renault ... it's a kangoo ... And for the consumer it changes what a tank of AD blue if it's the same on a Mercedes than on a VW ... Without messing around ... There's nothing more important to deal with ... Soon we will blame them for mounting the same tire dimensions ...

Complaints from customers who paid too much for their vehicle ... Without messing around ... It's the seller or buyer who signs the check ... Sometimes I wonder if it would be better not to be illiterate that read such bullshit ...
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Re: New car scandal? Collusion between German builders?




by Gaston » 25/07/17, 16:21

Macro wrote:And for the consumer it changes what a tank of AD blue if it is the same on a Mercedes as on a VW ...
The problem is not that the tank is the same (or that we share parts or whole models), it is to agree to use a tank that is too small by preventing a competitor from offering a more suitable model.

What would we say if the manufacturers used too fragile brakes by agreeing that no competitor offers better :?:
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Re: New car scandal? Collusion between German builders?




by Macro » 25/07/17, 17:35

What would I say to them .... Ba actually I don't know ... I have never bought that used vehicles at the end of their life for the common of consumers (minimum 250km) like that I buy knowingly ... You know a lot of people who have been asking for the capacity of their AD blue tank before buying a car ... already they do not care about the tank fuel ... In short that the journalists rather take care of denouncing the scandal that civil servants paid with the money of our taxes waste time taking care of these trifles rather than acting for a justice that drags on. for all things really important ...

We are still free to choose not to buy at a price of gold a shit that we can pay the price of money ...

The most fabulous rubbish in terms of cars that I have heard for several years ... By repatriating people who have broken down, They saw the mileage displayed on the odometer (more than 350 km) Very often I picked up these people from night and they had not seen the vehicle well ... And I had the thought: we should have bought a German .... You saw my dear 000 350km there is no mercedes they know how to make vehicles. ... Mister it is not a mercedes vito but a fiat scudo ... In fact it is the same thing as a peugeot or a citroen (exactly to the bolt ready) Ha good at fiat they make vehicles arriving has this Kmtrage there but you have to change how many times the engine .... And by going to navigate on forum auto et cie ... You find the same rubbish ...

I'm going to say like Coluche ... And to say that it would be enough if the people did not buy it so that it was sold ... : Mrgreen:

There is quite enough means of information today when one wants to buy something to avoid so much can be to make it meter well at the bottom ...
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Re: New car scandal? Collusion between German builders?




by 1360 » 25/07/17, 20:06

German style sodomy : Shock:

I'm laughing, but I'm laughing : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

And we haven't talked about the price of the parts yet ... I'm not done laughing, me ...
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Re: New car scandal? Collusion between German builders?




by Macro » 25/07/17, 20:35

1360 wrote:German style sodomy : Shock:

I'm laughing, but I'm laughing : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

And we haven't talked about the price of the parts yet ... I'm not done laughing, me ...


Have fun as much as you want ... and ask the assistance boxes for their statistics ...

Me ... On those that I do ... it goes up to more than 60% of renault, 20 of PSA and the foreigners share the 20 that remain ... There would be there in France only 20% of foreign cars in traffic ...
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Re: New car scandal? Collusion between German builders?




by Christophe » 26/07/17, 09:51

1360 wrote:And we haven't talked about the price of the parts yet ... I'm not done laughing, me ...


HS but I answer anyway ...

The PSA and Renault parts are not (are they anymore?) So much cheaper than BM and Audi ... and since the latter are still a little more reliable (but much less than before), for the handyman this maybe kif kif ...

What is expensive for the Germans are the new options (they can almost double the price of a car) and the workforce ...
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Re: New car scandal? Collusion between German builders?




by Christophe » 26/07/17, 09:53

Macro wrote:... Without messing around ... There's nothing more important to deal with ... Soon we'll blame them for mounting the same tire dimensions ...


AMHA, this is part of the great manipulation to divert people from the real problems ...

Like the other self-petro-government collusion ...
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