Eco2000 policy and Citroën!

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Christophe
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Eco2000 policy and Citroën!




by Christophe » 29/03/04, 22:44

I am sharing with you the excerpt from an email I just received from a former engineer at Citroen ... without comment:

Eco 2000 (3 L to 100 in 1984) was one of the prototypes (with the Renault Vesta 1 (then 2!) And the Peugeot VERA) funded at 50%
by the OEDEME (which has since become ADEME). the manufacturers then showed their expertise inexpensively ... without any
intend to market them!

Not even an aero option on the 305 ... no more during the successful presentation of the AX ECO while I was an SSC / EXV / GMP engineer at Citroen in the center of
Velizy.

What a desappointment! Citroen prefers Total and Total prefers Citroens who ... consume!

For almost 30 years the masses and the Scx have been degrading while the circulation has been multiplied by more than 2! I can't do anything except release my review on the Innovative concepts in
French / English by subscription and website (summary and forum) to criticize them and make them move ??? This project tickles me more and more ... my press card allowed me to approach talented people at the Geneva Motor Show (The designer of the Honda HIMAS for example)

(.....)

Back from the Geneva Motor Show, for the SCx I have some recent ones: they are around 0,7 even for cars (tires (too) wide, stylized air intake anti aero etc ...) or even worst
for large monohulls without counting the 1,8 Tons in running order, ie 2 tonnes with 3 passengers ... a disaster in the city or braking (pure calorific loss!) and energy-intensive revivals follow one another with aggressiveness exacerbated by the 30 million French vehicles and obstacles placed in traffic ...



The worst part is that people think that cars consume less than before ... (this would be true in "isoconfort" conditions :D ...)

Thanks to its author who will probably recognize himself;)

ps: SSC / EXV / GMP: Synthesis and Citroen style / Vehicle experimentation / propellant group then I did SCL: customer synthesis (organization of top secret missions and competition analysis).
Last edited by Christophe the 18 / 07 / 11, 13: 31, 2 edited once.
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by Dearcham » 30/03/04, 13:16

Even by going to take the researchers by the hand, no way to make them hear anything (see my experience during the conference on global warming with a researcher design engine development at PSA)

Since the regulations prohibit modified engines and the big companies turn away from them, I suppose that they would have to be forcibly mounted at night on all vehicles so that it eventually prevails: angry:
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by Christophe » 03/04/04, 14:31

cf my experience during the conference on global warming with an engine development design researcher at PSA

to stay polite, manufacturers have only that in mind: "the more CO2 there is in the exhaust the happier you are (because CO2 == total combustion)

On the other hand, they spend a few million a year (or 5% of what is put into engine research) on the fuel cell, just to have a ZERO EMISSION vehicle to present at the next show and to go up to the public as 'they make efforts while knowing (but keeping this saying) very well that this solution is not the right one .... neither economically nor ecologically ...
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by hyperius » 04/12/04, 13:34

Hello

question: when will the alternatives finally understand that we have to do without these people (manufacturer, administration, classical researchers, patents, etc.) who are not doing their job?
there is nothing more to expect from these established systems; even if it is us who will reward them ... !!!
_the classical researchers were mainly educated / trained / conditioned to work on classic projects! (except science [official ...] no salvation!) they will not lay your antigravitation!
_the industrialists itou! see for example this good old 4-stroke / 4-cylinder thermal engine and the impossibility that the said manufacturers have of developing electric vehicles (because the batteries ... leaded !!)
who can believe that they do not know the non-polluting "super-capacitors" (up to 5000 farads!) / almost instantaneous recharge / unlimited lifespan !! ??
the alternatives go up to the front in dispersed order, there is little or no means and if that was not enough it is most often addressed to established systems ... no Glop !!
positively; if they concentrated their joint efforts on a saving project, established an innovative principle (the most suitable) once and for all and spread it calmos outside the commercial circuit; there we have a chance to have a better world / so be it
while waiting for this blessed day .. i return to my workshop ...

reactions?

;)
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by Philippe Schutt » 18/07/11, 17:30

Yes, but marketing studies have always shown that customers demand more comfort and above all more security. Hence the multiple airbags, reinforcement bars in the doors, wider tires (braking), etc. ... according to the criteria for awarding NCAP stars.

And for comfort, larger cars and minivans, + heavy gadgets style panoramic roofs, giant windshields, air conditioning, car boxes, nothing but stuff that consume.
And I'm not talking about false good ideas like catalytic converters.
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by Flytox » 18/07/11, 18:17

Philippe Schutt wrote:Yes, but marketing studies have always shown that customers demand more comfort and above all more security. Hence the multiple airbags, reinforcement bars in the doors, wider tires (braking), etc. ... according to the criteria for awarding NCAP stars.


You could quote a study not sponsored by these same manufacturers or power in place which collects the TIPP and other VAT, worthy of a minimum of objectivity which speaks of the wish of the consumers?

I have great doubt that the real people interviewed did not put in mind the cost price for use. Unfortunately, since the time we stuffed the skull of conn.ries, by making us dangle the security (can), the technology (which increases only the price and not the performances), the speed (which we never try), I think that the discerning power of the interviewees has diminished :frown: : Mrgreen:

The NCAP stars gave themselves for races from 29 to 64 km / h ...... and we drive up to 130 km / h. At these speeds there, we will still make a max of ketchup in the least pileup with or without airbag. Without drastic speed limits it doesn't make much sense to talk about safety.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroNCAP
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by Christophe » 26/07/15, 05:43

Up!
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by Christophe » 26/07/15, 06:55

Wow ... an eco2000 (1 of the 4 built) was up for auction a little over a year ago ...

http://amicale-citroen.de/2014/citroen- ... bile-2014/


Lot N ° 330
Sale 2400, Rétromobile 2014 & Solo Alfa by Artcurial Motorcars
Date: 07 Feb 2014, Salon Rétromobile, Paris
Description: 1982 Citroën ECO 2000, SA 103 prototype
No reserve

Sold without a travel document,
to be registered as a collection gray card
Chassis # 638658

- Unique prototype of a particularly creative builder
- Result of the work of the Peugeot-Citroën design office
- Sold directly by Citroën Heritage

The oil crises of the 1970s deeply marked the spirits. Automobile consumption has become a major concern, for reasons not only commercial, but also political: it is a question of reducing the energy dependence of the country. Thus was born in 1981 the program "ECO 2000", which was to lead in 1986 to the development of a vehicle consuming 3 liters per 100 km on average. This project was funded at 50% by the public authorities and, at Peugeot-Citroën, around 103 engineers participated in the research. The specifications stated to "reject all technical preconceptions, the initial bias consisting in exploring as many solutions as possible, in all areas." The studies led to four successive prototypes, called SA 109, SA 117, SA 10 and SL 1985. The last version, from 2,4, achieved a consumption of 100 liters per 90 km at 3 km / h, with an average of XNUMX liters: objective achieved!
The prototype that we are offering here, coming directly from Citroën Heritage reserves which agrees to part with it, is the SA 103, the first of its kind. According to Citroën, it was a "first synthesis of the theoretical work undertaken, mainly focused on weight and aesthetics. The desire not to exclude any solution a priori is illustrated by the adoption of an architecture of the type "propulsion." In order to save time, the flat twin engine was chosen. " The car weighs only 430 kg, with a Cx of 0,267 and a consumption of 3,5 liters per 100 km. The 704 cc engine produces 3 DIN hp and the car reaches 26 km / h at peak speed.
Car foreshadowing the energy problem which we are increasingly confronted with, this Citroën ECO 2000 is a unique opportunity to acquire a prototype resulting from extensive work carried out by a manufacturer in the secrecy of its design offices. In addition, for a collector who does not hesitate to invest in the project, it can, after restoration, be put back on the road with its inimitable 80's style. It can be registered as a collection gray card.
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by Janic » 26/07/15, 10:38

panhard had done much better in terms of CX and weight.
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by Did67 » 26/07/15, 11:07

A prototype ???

Because the Dyna sold were heavier ...
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