Brandt: new electric vehicle, NiNaCl battery

[chatelot16]

Hello

I just saw on the news that Brandt found better things to do than washing machines

http://www.brandtmotors.com/m-53-l-utilitaire.html

and I discover in their doc a new type of battery

http://energyenvironment.pnnl.gov/prese ... 0Zebra.pdf

[roy1361]

Hello,

It's interesting, but they don't talk about the price.

Is it already on sale?

[Remundo]

Hi Chatelot,

If the vehicle is new, battery technology is not.

A few years ago there was a special version of the Berlingo Electric, called "first".

Berlingo Zebra Summary

These are hot batteries so that the salt is liquid, their energy density is close to LiFePO4.

The Nicad does not need to be hot to operate because it has an aqueous electrolyte.

@+

[chatelot16]

there is no info on the brandt site confirming that it is indeed zebra batteries ... but it is the only one that I found

understand it better why it has to work hot

it is not really a Ni-NaCl battery but rather NiCl-Na, and the sodium cannot exist with an aqueous electrolyte

the more metal is electronegative the more efficient the battery, cadnium, zinc, and lithium, at the limit of being able to use an aqueous electrolyte

maintaining the battery at 250 ° C consumes a power not at all proportional to the capacity of the battery: the heating is much more economical in large dimensions: therefore it is interesting batteries for large storage plant

in small dimensions the heating power must be a big handicap! like when you are stuck at the limit of battery capacity, if you have to stop or there is no socket to recharge, the battery cools down and you are completely stuck

too bad brandt chose such a special path

given the low speed of this vehicle it seems to me that it would be possible to do the same thing with lead acid battery!

[Did67]

It's a little more complex:

- Brandt is a brand of the FagorBrandt group, mainly Fago (Spain)

- whose top loading washing machine activity is doomed (manufactured in Lyon under the Brandt and Vedette brands!)

- within the framework of the reconversion, a new company was created, the SITL, controlled by a holding company in which FagorBrandt put in particular the financing of the reconversion plan, and the money of part of the land sold and an industrialist , Monsieur Millet, his marbles ...

- this SITL continues to manufacture ... washing machines for FagorBrandt until 2015, while releasing its first urban electric utility vehicles under the brand ... Brandt Motors

- the first were released in the second half of 2012

- other electric vehicles will follow, if the project does not flop first! [I say that because after a craze started in 2011/2012, notably with Renault-Nissan, GM-Opel, Heuliez, etc ... I now see a lot of delays or "failed take-offs"; but it is only an appreciation]

More info here:

http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/co ... ue.N176616

http://www.usinenouvelle.com/construction-automobile/

[I Citro]

Regarding the future of the company, the skills of the managers will be essential.

This type of vehicle is promised to an inescapable development whose speed will depend on the courage of the public authorities to limit then prohibit the circulation of diesel in the city. This decision is inevitable because the epidemiological studies are formal and cross-checked by numerous public and private laboratories.

Politicians, under pressure from regulatory authorities, mainly Europe, must respect air pollution thresholds which are constantly exceeded. It is just astonishing to note that the French citizens remain passive when we know that the Japanese, renowned for their discipline have long dragged the manufacturers to court and obtained millions of Yen in compensation and the ban on the circulation of diesels in city.
Most Nippons car manufacturers only produce diesels for foreign markets in general and European ones in particular ...

From an economic point of view, a vehicle of this type is not much more expensive than a thermal vehicle and depreciates very quickly because the consumption differential is much greater than that existing between an electric car and a car. thermal...

[Remundo]

Like Chatelot, I have a big doubt about the technology of the batteries chosen ...

I understand that Lithium is not used; it's difficult to manage.

To avoid cadmium (banned now ...), I would have rather seen Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH), not very restrictive, quite reliable.

However for me, the Nicad potassium electrolyte is the safest thing.

We made a lot of hay on the very dangerous Cadmium, but for lead, nobody worries. Cadmium is not a problem if you recycle batteries well ...

By the way, I had done a Nicad / Lithium / Lead comparison file.

@+

[Did67]

I agree with citro.

But, pessimistic, I also note that the last wave of hope is not at the rendezvous ... Renault is skating with Twizzy, Zoé, etc ... And above all, I note that in the 2014 budget project which is One of the biggest cuts in the budget right now is ... the environment! If we don't cut corners on aid, it will be a miracle!

But I wish you were right.

[chatelot16]

I think a good electric vehicle manufacturer should leave the choice of battery type

the customer who needs a low autonomy could be satisfied with lead-acid battery for a minimum purchase price

for intensive use, it is the most reliable NiCd

for a long autonomy, lithium for those who want to pay the price

it should be possible to change the type of battery in the life of the vehicle

mounting only one type of battery is really annoying with a battery as special as this NiCl-Na

[Did67]

This is in line with a reflection I had made on the need to standardize the batteries so as to encourage rapid change.

I was thinking then of service stations like those of the fire "Better PLace", but it also appears in the direction that you develop: each one the battery which suits him!

But I think that the natural tendency of the manufacturers is going to be "each one his system / to take captive the final customer" and basta ... You have to milk it once you have given it the pan!