Steam car

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
the middle
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 4075
Registration: 12/01/07, 08:18
x 4

Steam car




by the middle » 21/04/13, 08:49

Hello,
Lately, I saw briefly (on TV), very briefly, a steam engine.
I searched the net, and here I find surprising info:

Meet the people who have modern day steam engines. It is cheap, efficient and compact and can change the political world / sociological landscape. These men have an Enginion http://www.amovis.de/en/leaders.htm fully functional, efficient modern day steam engine. They together with the VW car co. built several working prototypes, but then decided that the world shouldn't have EZEE03 and the revolutionary steam engine? They kept it for themselves. Look at the facts and modern history of the power of the steam engine and in the car. Also consider the consequences on society the only ones who will lose with this modern steam engine unleashed on the world are the wealthy, the government and the electric power companies. The poor and middle classes would be the real winners. Either these folks at VW and Enginion said something, or they're incredibly short sighted for thinking that the world isn't ready to buy a modern steam car. Maybe it's just greed. See here ... Motor http://www.amovis.de/en/simulation.htm Consequesces ... Looking at the consequences it is no wonder that even the German government, with all social programs and state funded schools would oppose the release of this new steam car powered by EZEE03 What does it mean for a modern steam electric car to be sold to the general public? This means that the taxes collected by the gas tax and used to maintain the government and infrastructure will not be picked up. This alone causes far far-reaching effects. Governments will have to find other sources of taxation, roads will be neglected and municipal pensions will have to be abolished. But the poor have the power to build, power and money to innovate and invent. This is the money that goes today to government businesses and gasoline will be invested and move on to other areas.

From 1996 an R & D subsidiary of the Volkswagen AG group was called Enginion developing a system called ZEE (Zero Emissions Engine). It produces vapor almost instantly, without a flame, and took 30 seconds to reach full power from a cold start. Their third prototype, EZEE03, was a three-cylinder unit intended for insertion into a Škoda Fabia automobile. The EZEE03 has been described as having a "two-stroke" (i.e. single-acting) engine with 1.000 cc (61 cu in) displacement, producing up to 220 hp (164 kW) (500 N · m or 369 ft Lbf). The exhaust gases were said to be well below the SULEV standard. It had an "oilless" ceramic engine cylinder liners using steam instead of oil as a lubricant. However, Enginion (link) found that the market was not ready for steam cars, so they instead opted to develop the “Steamcell” power generator / heating system based on similar technology.


http://www.amovis.de/en/simulation.htm
0 x
Man is by nature a political animal (Aristotle)
moinsdewatt
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5111
Registration: 28/09/09, 17:35
Location: Isére
x 554

Re: Steam car




by moinsdewatt » 21/04/13, 12:22

It's everyday April 1st for the middle. Image
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 21/04/13, 12:35

What is sad is that we still manage to "publicize" this kind of nonsense!

To me, this shows two things:

a) man needs "beliefs", a need to believe that a miracle is always possible ...

b) that other men have an ego such that they spread any coryances just so that homems of type a) admire them ...


On the subject: the steam engine existed before internal combustion engines; if this took over, especially Diesel, it is quite simple, nt that their performance was better.

Steam locomotives have gradually been replaced by Diesels on non-electrified lines ...

So no need to "believe" in consiprationist theories. The stupidest VW engineer knows this. And undoubtedly apart from the Christic fantasy (the "savior") of the one who wrote these lines (I'm talking about the article), no one at VW has ever been interested in a steam engine ...

Just think for two seconds: where does the energy come from to produce the steam?
0 x
the middle
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 4075
Registration: 12/01/07, 08:18
x 4




by the middle » 21/04/13, 13:50

Hi buddies,
This site is built to move in the right direction,
Did 67 and less than watt, don't be a good guy, you're the worst kind of shit, I am mean and vulgar to put me at your level.
Go see yourself at Obamat and Barosso.

There are other ways to express your point of view, you are mean, I become vulgar to see worse : Cheesy:
0 x
Man is by nature a political animal (Aristotle)
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 21/04/13, 15:47

I repeat - even if I doubt that it will be useful given the tone it takes:

- it is the comments of the article that you quote that I criticize

- amovis seems a serious box, even if I don't know

- the links with me don't work

- on their official website, I don't see anything on the prototypes in question

- on the other hand, recover the waste heat (lost), why not; it is only a question of the cost of the technology used / watts recovered

- something else is a "steam engine"

- on the Amovis site mention is made of Rankin systems, etc ... Nothing revolutionary ... If Rankin or Stirling is regularly mentioned in applications - especially cogeneration - for the moment the cost is prohibitive for very modest performances; if we look at the conditions of the Rankin Cyles, this is not surprising. It works. But at a price of gold compared to the least kW that one draws from it.

So for my part, cited article comments are, come on, naive!

Just an example, and then I will be silent: of course that the end of the era of cheap oil will raise the question of taxation which is heavily based on the TIPP; this is already the case, with a marked reduction in the consumption of domestic fuel and a very slight reduction in fuels.

But to think that governments will run out of ideas to find another "plate" is to be naive to say the least.

I quote one at random: in Germany, heavy goods vehicles have been tracked down by a chip and taxed by the kilometer for several years now. Do a search on "maut". It is also a private company that manages this for the government. In Alsace, the gantries have been set up for an "experiment" which will start very soon. Before summer it seems to me.

http://aireurbainebelforthericourtmontb ... ebut-2013/

What prevents transferring this to cars (electric, steam, horse, pedal?)? And to call it "ecotax" ???

More generally, the car will probably no longer be the predominant "base" as it was after the war (due to the ridiculously low price of oil). It will undoubtedly be something very broad: telephone traffic (and here too, it has started!), Electricity (the energy vector of tomorrow) ...

So, yes I persist, the comments of which of a disconcerting naivety!

But it is so simple when a technique "does not work" - or not yet - (or is not marketable because it is overpriced), to accuse the government, VW, the oil groups or whatever! This is what I call conspiracy theory. Ditto for the electric car. It is so simple to deny that the question of electricity storage is not developed, at an affordable price ... Or that autonomy worries the potential customer ... So of course, it is the ugly builders . Or Total ... Never the "brilliant" inventor ...

Yes, then I get mean and stupid and whatever you want. And I assume.
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 21/04/13, 17:05

Hello

- the links with me don't work


If that can help you the link works with me

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 21ZyKD.pdf

Personally I am open to everything, to constructive criticism, and to even the most eccentric novelties, I look, not important to believe or not there are always instructive elements sometimes which can be applied elsewhere we learn it every day ..

Systematic criticism is easy, simple, in two lines.

To listen to you you must have a rather acid and decided opinion on water doping and walking with frying oil on a diesel old, indirect injection.
There are things that we know after more than 100 km of experimental work. (sometimes it's better to close your box on how to solve problems, on decantation methods and the use of oil in a diesel, before we find ourselves in shortage on the collection of oils : Cry: ) in the face of difficulties many give up easier to go to the pump and follow the manufacturer's manual.
There are consistent steps, (some would say, marginal), when you are in this category, you remain discreet, if you want to go far
Before we tell you, the legality, the insurance, the guarantee
the manufacturer's manual.

Andre
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 21/04/13, 17:08

I know enough about steam engines and internal combustion engines to be sure that a steam engine in a car is never better than an internal combustion engine

there are so many geniuses who have worked on steam for several centuries that I feel that the maximum is done ... but if someone can do a little better he will sell his system to heat cogeneration, or other energy recovery, the great weight of steam engines is not a drawback

if the system was light enough it could be sold for agricultural machine or public works machine ... without being hampered by a hypothetical conspiracy which blocks the construction of automobile

say it works but we put sticks in the wheels does not seem serious

it's like the striling philips ... it had no future in cars because it was not efficient enough! quite simply ! ... but there is always a bunch of almost identical stirling that works to get cold and liquefy air!

so the steam engines work ... there are people who know how to operate it where it is useful
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 21/04/13, 18:36

Andre wrote:
Systematic criticism is easy, simple, in two lines.

To listen to you you must have a rather acid and decided opinion on water doping and walking with frying oil on a diesel old, indirect injection.

Andre


1) Are we no longer in this thread?

2) If you trace my posts, since you seem to be referring to my opinions on other questions, you should know that I am not just criticizing ...

3) One last time, nothing against experiments.

Re-read what I question: it is the "hurray, such and such had a brilliant idea, alas, the ugly governments / builders / oil companies murder it ... "

On the site of the company in question, I saw nothing revolutionary. Just well-built waste heat recovery systems. References to an Rnakin engine ... Etc ...

But I haven't read the link. I will see if there is anything to revise my opinion.

4) Yes, I am skeptical about the benefits of doping with water and the "explanations" which are given, dissociation of water into H², etc ...

I don't hide it.

But you will note that I do not pollute the threads in question. My skepticism does not lead me to denigrate those who experiment, or to mock them, or simply to get them drunk ...

I believe more the tests which were made with tractors on benches than subjective data in variable conditions made by convinced.

If this were to "revolutionize" the world of the engine, and the car, I would eventually find out.

So I'm curious but skeptical or skeptical but curious, as you like.


4) For frying oil and "old Diesel", no problem.

When I drove in Diesel, I mixed rapeseed oil for a long time with my diesel ... When it was less than 1 euro ...

Except that it is a niche for a few people with access to this resource. And so that's not what will replace oil. So there too, it is not a "rupture" ...
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 21/04/13, 21:45

Although reading (and speaking) perfectly German, I admit that I did not understand the slideshow.

If I read correctly between the lines, it is about producing electricity from an organic Rankin.

With the advantage of coupling the production of heat for heating or cold for air conditioning ???

One of the dias insists on the powers when it is cold and hot ... and on the reduction of the autonomy of electric cars when it is cold ....

It will indeed be necessary that this bazaar demonstrates that with a quantity x of fuel (I understand that it is a question of ethanol?), One obtains a higher output with what one obtains with an internal combustion engine ( whose fatal heat is also used for heating in winter).

Perhaps a possible gain in summer by coupling the Rankin with the production of cold for air conditioning ????


But I maintain that the arguments developed in the cited article inflate me to the highest point. If the bazaar produces better performance than a conventional engine at an equivalent price, VW will not hesitate 3 minutes to put it in its models. Otherwise, it will be Mercedes or BMW!

Again, I remain curiously skeptical. Or skeptically curious.
0 x
moinsdewatt
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5111
Registration: 28/09/09, 17:35
Location: Isére
x 554




by moinsdewatt » 21/04/13, 21:46

lejustemilieu wrote:Hi buddies,
This site is built to move in the right direction,
...


Precisely no, by publishing this kind of nonsense you get into the minds of people who are not very educated and gullible that there will be an energy solution and that consequently we will not change our lifestyles and waste.

You are the ones who drive back the spirits.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "New transport: innovations, engines, pollution, technologies, policies, organization ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 210 guests