Recovery of green waste in short circuit

Environmental impact of end of life products: plastics, chemicals, vehicles, agri-food marketing. direct recycling and recycling (upcycling or upcycling) and reuse of good items for the trash!
Ahmed
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Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Ahmed » 15/04/20, 09:49

I hesitated about the appropriate section, but I rejected the one that deals with "sustainable development", I am so revolted by this oxymoron ... :frown:

Confinement requires, I take this opportunity to talk a little about this project which should only materialize as soon as things improve ... I will be all the more attentive to comments and possible criticisms that nothing is still set in stone.
I summarize the general idea, without entering into the particular considerations which led me to it: the collection of green waste by the local communities and especially the transport costs a fortune (because of the low density of green waste, the truck transports especially ... air). The treatment of waste (crushing, composting) is taken care of free of charge by a company which is delivered at community expense, as already specified, which implies a work of concentration of waste, originally dispersed, towards a single place.
If we now consider things from a purely functional angle, the current solution goes through composting, a solution which benefits from a very positive image in public opinion, but which is however not so virtuous as that. Indeed, it is thermophilic bacteria which are responsible for the job and this with strong release of CO²: they work to reduce the organic matter in soil; I mean reduce, because the necessary energy being taken from the initial mass, there is a strong decrease in volume to ultimately obtain a residue, certainly usable, but of modest agronomic interest. In addition, this substrate will have to be dispersed again among user gardeners ...

The sector that I wish to set up proceeds in a radically different way and aims to recover waste as close as possible to users. The waste collection will be done at the level of the Municipality and the transformation will be limited to crushing: thus, the users will be able, according to their needs, to leave with crushed or not and those which would be applicants of crushed without having waste could also find their happiness, of course within the limits of the available flows (a professional user would be introduced into the circuit to smooth the flows).
I am aware that the success of such a project rests on the one hand on a firm will on the part of the municipality, a strong commitment of the staff (who will have to be trained properly and be there also valued) and on the other hand, on the implementation of a real pedagogy articulated around several axes on which I will come back later. This pedagogy which is the most important and the most delicate part to deploy will have to insist especially on the practical aspects and therefore the multiple applications in mulching, without forgetting certain additional possibilities (hot layers of spring, dry toilets, animal litter ...) .
From a theoretical point of view, which is dear to me, there is migration of a solution which externalizes both the transformation to the detriment of the actors of the ground and the control which is delegated to an external and invisible speaker, to go towards a local recovery of the whole process in a transparent and redirected way in favor of the functioning of the soil. This aspect must appear in filigree in the whole of the communication, even if it is likely to be more difficult to communicate at the beginning ... It is possible that this goes through an accent put on the difference in the evolution of carbon which , with this approach, is stored permanently in the ground: we know that the question of CO² leaves no one absolutely indifferent ... Water management with periods of summer drought would also be an interesting point of support, everything like weeds, as a credible alternative to chemical weedkillers, thus avoiding the need for manual weeding.
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit.




by sicetaitsimple » 15/04/20, 10:30

I understand the general idea, but some practical details escape me.
For example:
- I understand that on a given territory (a comcom for example?) you will have instead of a point of treatment several of these. But the collection would always be carried out centrally, by a collection company?
- each of these (smaller) treatment points would be equipped with a crusher, or mobile crusher?
- how would the ground material be stored despite everything necessary?
- how would the shredded material be "delivered", except for the equipped professionals who would come and collect it on site?
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit.




by izentrop » 15/04/20, 10:55

In my town there is an enclosure reserved for that. Originally it was used in several municipalities and transport to the recycling center was paid for by com de com.

In recent years, this transport has been relegated to the municipality. The question arose whether we continued or not. I had proposed the purchase of a good shredder managed in turn by volunteers, with the distribution of the shredded product to whoever wanted it and I had offered ... It is the solution to pay a carrier who has was retained. the enclosure is therefore locked with a padlock and reserved for people from the municipality.

+ the backhoe loader for loading, hello the carbon footprint.

It is absurd but we must also understand the additional responsibility falling on the mayor's shoulders, there is certainly also a question of insurance and risk of injury.

We will have to wait for expensive oil before it becomes possible financially and in people's minds. It's like dry toilets.
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit.




by Ahmed » 15/04/20, 11:45

It was simple, you address several relevant questions:
- I understand that on a given territory (a comcom for example?) you will have instead of a point of treatment several of these. But the collection would always be carried out centrally, by a collection company?

On the first point, you are right: for the moment it will be on the territory of the neighboring municipality which has 450 inhabitants: it is better to start on a reduced perimeter before seeing bigger, ... if affinities ... : Wink:
On the second, no collection is planned: users will bring their waste with their trailer (or other) and will leave in the same way *.
- each of these (smaller) treatment points would be equipped with a crusher, or mobile crusher?

Yes, a mobile shredder which could also be moved to treat occasional large volumes on site (against participation, in this case).
- how would the ground material be stored despite everything necessary?

A small temporary storage to buffer the flows should be considered and this is the technically most delicate point, since fermentation must be avoided as much as possible. The gardening professional will serve precisely to avoid these too prolonged storage by "smoothing the flow".
- how would the shredded material be "delivered", except for the equipped professionals who would come and collect it on site?

I answered this question above (see *).

Yes, Izentrop, it is indeed a matter of additional responsibility, because in terms of implementation it does not change anything since it is supported by an outside team. As I wrote, it takes a municipality that has acquired this approach to start the process, then thanks to the virtues of memetics (that is to enrage Guy! : Lol: ), things should evolve more easily.
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit.




by sicetaitsimple » 15/04/20, 12:29

Ahmed wrote:On the first point, you are right: for the moment it will be on the territory of the neighboring municipality which has 450 inhabitants: it is better to start on a reduced perimeter before seeing bigger, ... if affinities ... : Wink:
On the second, no collection is planned: users will bring their waste with their trailer (or other) and will leave in the same way *.


I think the question is there. On a small town that wants to play it "personal" (nothing pejorative, just the fact of saying that it wants to manage its green waste on its own), maybe it can work? I doubt it a bit, but why not. But when you extend to several municipalities, it becomes less obvious, there are still "economies of scale" to be shared, regardless of the treatment process chosen (composting vs grinding) which for me is "secondary" in the business , at least seen from the municipality for which it is above all a charge.
I admit that I have no idea: what is the annual tonnage of green waste to be treated (not already used directly by its inhabitants) in a small town of 450 inhabitants in rural areas?
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Christophe » 15/04/20, 12:34

I only read the title: isn't the answer obvious?

Recycling green waste in a short circuit is composting ... direct (at the foot of the plants) as Didier advises! : Cheesy:

We can try more complex things like anaerobic digestion but we need significant inputs to hope for economic profitability (but this calculation and our mentalities * may soon change, thank you Coronavirus !!) ...

* some are ahead of it! : Cheesy:
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by GuyGadebois » 15/04/20, 12:46

Christophe wrote:J
* some are ahead of it! : Cheesy:

Indeed:
https://www.novethic.fr/actualite/energ ... 46148.html
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by sicetaitsimple » 15/04/20, 12:49

Ahmed talks (essentially) of woody waste, which cannot be reused in anaerobic digestion.
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Christophe » 15/04/20, 12:56

GuyGadebois wrote:
Christophe wrote:J
* some are ahead of it! : Cheesy:

Indeed:
https://www.novethic.fr/actualite/energ ... 46148.html


I was talking about the Guy mentality! : Cheesy:

The subject of micro (nano?) Anaerobic digestion has been discussed many times this forum:

renewable-energies / self-construction-of-a-family-methanizer-t9028.html

self-build-and-DIY / methanization-at-home-t6934.html

energies-renewable / some figures on-the-methanization-t11627.html

renewable-energies / how-much-biogas-produced-1-m3-of-waste-at-least-at-most-t11217.html

biofuels / making-dog-poop-biogas-and-other-guide-remains-t10761.html

It is enough to know the methanogenic power to see the limits of micro methanization: energies-renewable / biogas-methanization-and-power-methanogenic-t2338.html

I quote myself:

Christophe wrote:By approximating and to have an order of value, it therefore takes 20 kg of material (at 50% liquid) to make 1L of fuel oil.


So we have a mass ratio of 20 / 0.84 = 23.80 kg per kg of fuel oil ...

And to make the equivalent of 1000 L annually ... 20 Tons are therefore needed in order of magnitude ... Few gardens can produce as much biomass ...
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Paul72 » 15/04/20, 13:41

Hello Ahmed, I might say something stupid, but why not consider valuing the shredded produce in the form of a communal vegetable garden? There should be at least two plots, to alternate each year that which is amended and that which is cultivated. No weeding, no fertilization or watering and a soil that will become productive for the needs of a school or the most deprived people, municipal celebrations etc ...
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