Operating a straight tube with a ballast lampéco ..

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Operating a straight tube with a ballast lampéco ..




by RV-P » 12/10/12, 16:20

- Hello !
- Everything is in the title.
- For some time, I saw the container with used lamps of the large surface where my wife and I go shopping fill with grilled compact fluorescent lamps ... Having bought compact fluorescent lamps myself and having seen them burn out, I keep and dismantle them, recovering the electronic ballast to recover parts (notably the 350V transistors, to make amplifier input stages!) ...
- Then I had the "bright" idea of ​​wanting to operate a straight fluorescent tube, ordinary, with one of these ballasts.
- So, having disassembled one of these famous lamps, I carefully located where the four wires of the deceased tube were connected, soldered four wires, terminated by female plugs, of the kind found in television sets to connect the demagnetizer or the deflector of the picture tube. having seen that these plugs fit very well on the plugs of connection of the straight fluorescent tubes, it did not take long to solder four instead of the wires of the defunct compact fluorescent tube and to connect the straight tube to it!
- As a precaution, I put in series with the 220V a 100W flood lamp to limit the current in the event of a short circuit, I connect the electronic ballast equipped with the straight tube and ... IT WORKS!
- Of course, I had to adapt the power:
* With 8W tube, a ballast is perfect 9W
* Also for 13W tube, a ballast should 12W
* Ideal for a ballast 15W is to find a 15W tube, even for a 18W!
- The diagram? Oh, very simple:
Image
- And here is the 13W tube with a 12W ballast that lights up my desk:
Image
Image
- And, in addition, the ignition is instantaneous!
- Convinced?
- @ +!
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by dedeleco » 12/10/12, 16:49

Useful, but these are not ballasts rudimentary old fluorescent tube, but pulsed power supplies, because eco lamps are much more difficult to start and operate.

It is better to cool the transistor better with a dissipator, because it is often poorly cooled and sometimes dies before the lamp.

By increasing the pulsed voltages a little, the dead lamp should restart. The limit is the possible UV and X rays; but then with a much better yield, which kill, see patents around 1900 on this type of lamps, X-rays, efficient, but deadly !!.

It is certain that we could change only the lamp tube, with the base always the same electronics that we waste !!
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by Forhorse » 12/10/12, 17:30

I confirm, it works without worries. I did this a few years ago too to light up my office.
Be careful though with the adequacy of power of the original compact fluorescent = power of the new tube.
It is out of the question to supply a 36W tube with an 11W ballast for example.

By cons if dedeleco could spare us his usual gibberish it would make us vacation. You have nothing else to do with life? you have no friends?
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by dedeleco » 12/10/12, 17:58

Forhorse wrote:
On the other hand if dedeleco could spare us its usualle gibberish that would make us vacation. You have nothing else to do with life? you have no friends?


and if Forhorse could spare us his usual contempt for what he does not know or understand, given his contempt for ancient scientific work, which he describes with the word gibberish !!

By putting a correct radiator on the same transistor, we must be able to significantly increase the available power.

By increasing the voltage on the fluorescent tube, it will work longer, changing the transistor and the inductance.

Read the history of X-rays, for fluorescent lamps with perfect performance and long life, but deadly !!


The fact that Forhorse is on its undersized Canadian well, which should be more like www.dlsc.ca , much better ???
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by RV-P » 12/10/12, 21:19

Dedeleco wrote:It is better to cool the transistor better with a dissipator, because it is often poorly cooled and sometimes dies before the lamp.

- The 13W tube that you see in the photos, it has been working for several years and often several hours in a row! In addition, there is a fuse integrated into the lampéco "ballast"! So, you know, when it comes to the resistance of the transistors, I don't worry: I DID it, just like others have made the G-Pantone without asking any questions, period!
- I also fitted an 18W tube with an 18W lampeco ballast which I use to light a storage room of around 9 m2 for tinkering. No operating quirks for several years! In addition, my fixtures are connected by a power outlet, not directly on the sector!
ALL the lamp ballasts I got, all worked : there was not one toasted while the filaments of the fluorescent tubes had long since passed away! Otherwise, it was the DIODES and the fuse that "blown", never the transistors! And then, in the collectors of used lamps in supermarkets, there are "tons" of ballasts! If you come across a defective one, just replace it !!! And in addition, I even repaired lamps whose ballasts were defective (diode short-circuited and fuse blown)!
- Regarding possible X-rays, the ballasts in the lamps are not more shielded than in my assembly! So there are as many!
- (By the way, at home, as we are still the "trash" of France, Mégaman lamps which cost between 8 and 10 € do not last longer than "made in China-youyou" lamps which cost between 2 and € 3!)
- Before criticizing, did you DO it? And did you measure x-rays that came out, rather than "swallow" any "scientific" report without checking?!? ... What a "killjoy" you are doing!
- @ +!
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by dedeleco » 12/10/12, 22:22

RV-P clearly shows that it has understood nothing of the basic physics of fluorescent lamps, and, once again, it goes without knowing and refusing to learn a century of past work !!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_fluorescent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp

These are not ballasts at all like in the past, an improper term at present, but electronic power supplies, at higher frequency !!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballast_%2 ... t%C3%A9%29

Besides Vialle and Naudin could use this same assembly in cheap and ready-made auto-oscillator, on their coil and U-tube, in place of the fluorescent lamp, to have lots of their dreams of over-energy, with good less than 220V !!
This basic electronics can be recovered for lots of assemblies !!!

The transistor with cooler will work at higher power than the nominal value, with good capacities, often under dimensioned.

X-rays are at high voltage at 10000V, but a dead tube restarts its UV discharge, at higher voltage, even with worn electrodes !!!
This has nothing to do with the filaments of incandescent lamps. The ignition system, which emits electrons, is similar to that of radio lamps in the past.

And we killed people with the first fluorescent x-ray lamps!!
While Becquerel was primarily interested in conducting scientific research into fluorescence, Thomas Edison briefly pursued fluorescent lighting for its commercial potential. He invented a fluorescent lamp in 1896 that used a coating of calcium tungstate as the fluorescing substance, excited by X-rays, but although it received a patent in 1907, [5] it was not put into production
Principles of operation

The fundamental means for conversion of electrical energy into radiant energy in a fluorescent lamp relies on inelastic scattering of electrons. An incident electron collides with an atom in the gas. If the free electron has enough kinetic energy, it transfers energy to the atom's outer electron, causing that electron to temporarily jump up to a higher energy level. The collision is 'inelastic' because a loss of kinetic energy occurs.

This higher energy state is unstable, and the atom will emit an ultraviolet photon as the atom's electron reverts to a lower, more stable, energy level. Most of the photons that are released from the mercury atoms have wavelengths in the ultraviolet (UV) region of the spectrum, primarily at wavelengths of 253.7 and 185 nanometers (nm). These are not visible to the human eye, so they must be converted into visible light. This is done by making use of fluorescence. Ultraviolet photons are absorbed by electrons in the atoms of the lamp's interior fluorescent coating, causing a similar energy jump, then drop, with emission of a further photon. The photon that is emitted from this second interaction has a lower energy than the one that caused it. The chemicals that make up the phosphor are chosen so that these emitted photons are at wavelengths visible to the human eye. The difference in energy between the absorbed ultraviolet photon and the emitted visible light photon goes toward heating up the phosphor coating.

When the light is turned on, the electric power heats up the cathode enough for it to emit electrons (thermionic emission). These electrons collide with and ionize noble gas atoms inside the bulb surrounding the filament to form a plasma by the process of impact ionization. As a result of avalanche ionization, the conductivity of the ionized gas rapidly rises, allowing higher currents to flow through the lamp.

The Fill Gas Helps Determine The Operating Electrical Characteristics of the Lamp, Purpose Does Not Give Off Light Itself. The Fill Gas Effectively Increasses The Distance That Electron Travel Through The Tube, Which Allows An Electron A Greater Chance of Interacting with a mercury atom. Argon Atoms, Excited to a Metastable State by Impact Of An Electron, Can Impart This Energy To A Neutral Mercury Atom and Ionize It, Described As The Penning Effect. This has the benefit of lowering the breakdown and operating voltage of the lamp, compared to other possible fill gases such as krypton. [
The lamp's electrodes are typically made of coiled tungsten and usually referred to as cathodes because of their prime function of emitting electrons. For this, they are coated with a mixture of barium, strontium and calcium oxides chosen to have a low thermionic emission temperature.
The Simplest Ballast for Alternating Current (AC) Use is an inducor placed in Series, consisting of a winding on Laminate Magnetic Core. THE INDUCANCE OF THIS WINDING LIMITES THE FLOW OF AC CURRENT
Fluorescent lamps can run directly from a DC supply of sufficient voltage to strike an arc
he ballast must be resistive, and would consume about as much power as the lamp
Life of electronics is heavily dependent on operating temperature — it typically halves for each 10 ° C temperature rise. The quoted average life of a lamp is usually at 25 ° C ambient (this may vary by country). The average life of the electronics at this temperature is normally greater than this, so at this temperature, not many lamps will fail due to failure of the electronics. In some fittings, the ambient temperature could be well above this, in which case failure of the electronics may become the predominant failure mechanism. Similarly, running a compact fluorescent lamp base-up will result in hotter electronics, which can cause shorter average life (particularly with higher power rated ones). Electronic ballasts should be designed to shut down the tube when the emission mix runs out as described above. In the case of integral electronic ballasts, since they never have to work again, this is sometimes done by having them deliberately burn out some component to permanently cease operation.

In most CFLs the filaments are connected in series, with a small capacitor between them. The discharge, once lit, is in parallel to the capacitor and presents a lower-resistance path, effectively shorting the capacitor out. One of the most common failure modes of cheap lamps is caused by underrating this capacitor (using lower-voltage, lower-cost part), which is very stressed during operation, leading to its premature failure. [24]


Finally I do not see how:
my fixtures are connected by a power outlet, not directly on the sector!

can give 220V on a socket without coming from the sector at the end of a wire, in one way or another !!!
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by RV-P » 13/10/12, 16:08

Dedeleco wrote:RV-P clearly shows that it has understood nothing of the basic physics of fluorescent lamps, and, once again, it goes without knowing and refusing to learn a century of past work !!

I electrician and I know how fluorescent lamps work: a discharge of electricity in a rare gas (argon) at low pressure with mercury vapor excites by ultraviolet in the visible range an interior coating which produces a white light or slightly yellow! From there to seeing the danger everywhere, while there are now millions of eco lamps that work, aren't you "a little" paranoid!? ...
Dedeleco wrote:These are not ballasts at all like in the past, an improper term at present, but electronic power supplies, at higher frequency !!

- Why do I keep calling it "ballast"? Because the original ballast (a coil) regulated the current in the tube which, as you probably know, has negative resistance!
- However, the electronic assembly acts in the same way, even if it operates at higher frequency: it regulates by a much smaller coil the current in the tube and is much less bulky and heavy!
- By the way, rather than presenting Wikipedia articles to me, you'd better take an X-ray developer (a photo film in an opaque container) and MEASURE X-rays coming out of the lamp! Go ahead: CHECK!
- In addition, one should not interpret negatively the Wikipedia article that I have in front of me: they used an X-RAY TUBE, that is to say a tube used in radiography devices !!! Not the same (By the way, the first experimenters were "a little" crazy!) And they only killed ONE employee:
Wikipedia wrote:These performances could have propelled this lamp on the lighting market but the X-radiation produced by this lamp will cause death ofun Edison employee.
! Should not try to "make me take bladders for lanterns", all the same!
- Do not try to hang me for "a leftover", please, even though I am "under my coconut palm"! Waiting, coconut fiber is able to replace septic tank filters, if you follow the news about housing on the radio or on TV !!!
- In addition, on the Wikipedia article, they confuse fluorescent lamps and luminescent lamps!
- Explanation?
* The luminescent lamps is TRANSPARENT glass tubes (Go see a shop window equipped with a sign off, in broad daylight!) Into which a low pressure gas is introduced and which is excited by an electric discharge. It gives the different colors observed in the shop windows (the Geissler tube, do you know?) And which work under a high voltage of 1000V per meter of tube !
Image
* The fluorescent lamps are tubes whose gas is a little argon (hence its slightly pink color) with mercury vapor which gives ultraviolet light (black light tubes!) and whose light excites a fluorescent coating, which can be various colors in addition to daylight white and warm white!
- By the way: the "ballast" diagram can also be used to power halogen lamps of 12V 50-60W or 3x 20W! I disassembled a copy, repaired it (in fact, it just lacked a small capacitor to maintain the oscillations!), "Pumped" the diagram and made a copy which works very well. : Cheesy: : Mrgreen: !!!
Dedeleco wrote:Finally I do not see how:
RV-P wrote:my fixtures are connected by a power outlet, not directly on the sector!

can give 220V on a socket without coming from the sector at the end of a wire, in one way or another !!!

- Question of safety standards!
- So ? Do you keep saying I didn't understand anything?!? ...
- @ +!
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by Forhorse » 13/10/12, 20:20

dedeleco should go buy a rope
come on, a little links to his favorite site https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide
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by dedeleco » 13/10/12, 22:10

And always this absurd contempt for the knowledge of millions of men over centuries, summarized !!
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by RV-P » 14/10/12, 17:40

- Precisely: I am suspicious "like the plague" of man and his disproportionate ego : Cheesy: : Mrgreen: (and therefore your contempt, at the same time!) !!!
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