Build a wind turbine engine

[fatfreddy]

Hello

By sorting the b ... in the room of my son I came across a game based on small magnetic bars allowing to make small constructions. These magnets are not very powerful but have the advantage of the number.
Before asking the opinion of the experts of the site I quite potashed certain pages of the forum and some sites devoted mainly to wind turbines (intended use for this possible engine).
I found a lot of answers there ... but not all I give you the remaining questions in bulk.

-Is it interesting to group these small magnetic bars by 3 or 4 to increase their magnetism?

-I have read that fine wire windings deliver less power than thicker ones but do so at the lowest rotation speeds, it is possible to "mix" the two for example "thin" windings on a circumference, the "thick" on another?
(see diagram, sorry for finishing)


-On certain diagrams you have to alternate the north and south poles of the magnets on others not, what is the best solution? what
difference?

-The rotor receiving the magnets would be a bicycle wheel, then I
have "sandwiched" between two stators receiving the windings
(to double the power)?

-The coils must be spiraled in the same direction (around
100 turns according to the average of my readings) in the case of alternating north-south magnets how should I group the wires of these coils? all the "entering" threads together and the "outgoing" threads
also ?

Thank you for your answers. Any criticisms, improvements or ideas will be welcome, I have almost all the "stuff" (magnet, copper wire, bicycle wheel, chipboard) if you think of the possible DIY I am going to do it.

[Forhorse]

-Is it interesting to group these small magnetic bars by 3 or 4 to increase their magnetism?

By increasing the number of magnets you increase the magnetic flux but not its intensity. So somewhere it is better to put several but to produce more it is better to find the strongest magnets possible. It is a relation between the intensity of the magnetism and the surface on which it is applied

-I have read that fine wire windings deliver less power than thicker ones but do so at the lowest rotation speeds, it is possible to "mix" the two for example "thin" windings on a circumference, the "thick" on another?
(see diagram, sorry for finishing)

No that's not it. The larger the wire, the greater the intensity delivered, but the greater the space occupied by the winding, the number of turns at equal volume will therefore be lower and since it is on the number of turns that the output voltage depends. , you have to find the best compromise between all of this, the power supplied is the product of both (unless we are looking for something specific: either high voltage or large current)
Note that the power of a generator does not only depend on the size of its windings but also on its magnetic circuit (a large coil on a small nucleus will not be able to produce more than the size of the nucleus anyway)

-On certain diagrams you have to alternate the north and south poles of the magnets on others not, what is the best solution? what
difference?

You have trouble understanding, because if there is no alternation of poles there is no variation in the magnetic field, therefore no induced current.

-The rotor receiving the magnets would be a bicycle wheel, then I
have "sandwiched" between two stators receiving the windings
(to double the power)?

I did not understand what you mean ... but see my remark above: the power of a generator depends above all on the size of its magnetic circuit.

-The coils must be spiraled in the same direction (around
100 turns according to the average of my readings) in the case of alternating north-south magnets how should I group the wires of these coils? all the "entering" threads together and the "outgoing" threads
also ?

The pitch of the stator must correspond to that of the rotor and the alternation of the poles and the direction of the windings must cause the currents induced in the coils at an instant T to be all in the same direction in all the coils, otherwise the currents cancel each other and nothing comes out (so if the poles of the magnets alternate, the direction of the coils must alternate in the same step)

[elephant]

Well said, I did well to wait for you to answer for me

[Christophe]

Wind turbine engine? Do you want to make a fan?

Winding an alternator is anything but "simple", especially if you want something high-performance and if you don't know electromagnetism well (I personally haven't dared to get started yet ...):

So here are links that bring together some links and info

https://www.econologie.com/forums/construire ... t7815.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/alternateu ... 74-20.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/moteur-uni ... 26-40.html
et
https://www.econologie.com/fabriquer-une ... -4081.html

Look at the last link

How to make self build a permanent magnet alternator for a wind turbine or other low speed application?

This document explains from A to Z how to proceed. He 49 pages and is illustrated in English but many plans and schemes.

[Forhorse]

A bit off topic, but at the Mulhouse Electricity Museum you can (or could?) See a large alternator used to generate electricity with a steam engine at the start of the last century.

The steam engine causes an enrome wheel (3 or 4 meters in diameter) at the periphery of which are arranged magnets (or electromagnets remember too often) and which thus constitutes the rotor.
The stator is a coil crown on the outside of this wheel.

The rotor diameter is such that even at low speed, the tangential speed at the air gap is very important.
And as everything is visible and not covered (very fashionable in the 1900s, we liked to show technology) it is very instructive to watch how this alternator is made.

[fatfreddy]

Thank you for your answers.

As some people understand it, I don't know much about it ... but I can read, on some site ( https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... algP2d.pdf ) the magnets are not alternated.

As for the "sandwich" I was not clear, for example if we place a stator on the right of the rotor why 'for the same price not to place one on the left?

I can not enter patterns it is on that it would be more telling thank you for the links I have browsed a lot and I will continue, see you later.

[Christophe]

I can not enter patterns it is on that it would be more telling thank you for the links I have browsed a lot and I will continue, see you later.

Everything is explained here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/comment-me ... t1176.html

Image or files, the method is the same.

[Forhorse]

As some people understand it, I don't know much about it ... but I can read, on some site ( https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... algP2d.pdf ) the magnets are not alternated.

Because the gap between each coil and especially each magnet is such that there is creation of a variation of the magnetic field. It does not change direction but increases and decreases, which causes the same effect.
If you want to bring the magnets closer, from a certain point the field does not vary any more, it is then necessary to alternate the poles to cause this variation of magnetic field.
(also includes a notion of closing the field lines which is easier to form with alternate poles)

Note that the alternator described in this manual, even if it is fully functional, is far, far from being optimized.

As for the "sandwich" I was not clear, for example if we place a stator on the right of the rotor why 'for the same price not to place one on the left?

Because if you put two stators you decrease as much the induction that each stator will receive, suddenly they will produce both but less than if there was only one.
It is preferable to make sure to have a stator very well constituted (weak air gap, magnetic circuit of good dimension, lines of magnetic field correctly looped, correct winding and well dimensioned) rather than 2 wobbly.