Climate Energy Exhibition

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nonoLeRobot
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Climate Energy Exhibition




by nonoLeRobot » 26/10/09, 00:53

I went for a ride to the energy climate fair in Paris:

Nothing extraordinary but I saw 3 interesting things:
* The first is that there is an important geothermal project in Paris:
http://www.cpcu.fr/index.php/cpcu/Un-en ... geothermie

* They pass the city on the thermal camera
http://www.greenzer.fr/paris-photos-thermiques
With interesting documents on the different techniques and eras of construction.

* A new French system of small wind turbines very well suited to the urban environment with wider yield ranges. It is really recent there is only one group installed last month which is not a prototype. It should develop quickly. There will be an installation
on December 13, I will try to go. There is not much info on the site yet: http://www.elena-energie.com/
I copied the brochure:
Image

and take pictures:
The 3,6 Kw
Image

The little girl who settles down like a fireplace. I don't know the power:
Image

I will try to follow the evolution.

It's not big powers but they are more constant with reduced installation costs (if I understood correctly: 18000 euros 3,6Kw)

edit: I found a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7qpP38j0Y
Last edited by nonoLeRobot the 26 / 10 / 09, 13: 50, 1 edited once.
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by Capt_Maloche » 26/10/09, 09:55

thank you nono :D
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Re: Climate Energy Fair




by Christophe » 26/10/09, 10:03

Thank you Nono for this return! (I bet 60% of the stands were Photovoltaïqu € € stands, in any case at the Renewable Show in 2008 where we were with Christine)

nonoLeRobot wrote:* They pass the city on the thermal camera


Yes, seen last week on FR2 news: https://www.econologie.com/forums/thermograp ... t8625.html

By any chance, do you have the site where you can consult free info and photos?

:)

b) For the wind turbine, the fairing did not show significant gains ... except maybe the look (mwarf)?

To get 3.6 kW in the model in the photo, you need a very high wind speed I think! There may be more resistance to high winds ... but otherwise I do not see too much interest ... I will look in more detail!

Uh 18 000 € for 3.6kW it's still HUGE as a price !!!

Rulian will tell you better than me!
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by Christophe » 26/10/09, 10:15

Ok I watched the video of the Eléna wind turbine (put on the site by the way: https://www.econologie.com/eolienne-elen ... -4144.html ): the main advantage seems the double counter-rotating propeller (= more compactness / power) the fairing allows a little less noise also (blocked shear wave).

It can be interesting but am not enough specialist in wind to be 100% sure (the pros will say that it is not I think) ...

In any case the price is excessive, on the video it still looks like really cheap PE plastic proto ...
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by Capt_Maloche » 26/10/09, 11:32

The first models are always more expensive before serialization

but it is not stupid at all the counter rotation, it works very well in aeronautics for propulsion, then indeed, for the generation also without doubts
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by Christophe » 26/10/09, 11:35

Uh 2 Maloche flats:

a) it doesn't work "as much" otherwise all propeller planes would be equipped ... right? Ditto for other industrial wind turbines, right?

b) for the price, we generally announce a public sale price (ie "series" even small), not a proto price ... € 18000 for 3.6 kW is a proto price ... or demonstrator if you prefer!
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by Capt_Maloche » 26/10/09, 11:55

Christophe wrote:Uh 2 Maloche flats:

a) it doesn't work "as much" otherwise all propeller planes would be equipped ... right? Ditto for other industrial wind turbines, right?


What do you mean?
there are everywhere my dear: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9lice_contrarotative

Gain on the propulsive efficiency of about 10%, it is not nothing

the best example: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-70

Image
Parameters Value
Year (a year is a unit of time expressing the duration between two occurrences of an event linked to the revolution of ...) of manufacturing 1994-?
Manufacturer Antonov
Wingspan (The wingspan is the distance between the ends of the wings. The term is valid to define a bird, a bat) ... 44,06 m
Length (The length of an object represents the distance between two of its ends, as far apart as possible. When ...) 40,73 m
Height (Height has several meanings depending on the area covered.) 16,38 m
Empty mass (Emptiness is above all a philosophical concept. It designates the absence of matter.) 73 t
Payload (Payload in English; payload) represents what is actually transported by means of ...) 47 t of freight (The transport of goods is an economic activity regulated, both by each country and at the level ...)
Max removable mass max. 135 t
Passengers 170 soldiers
Crew 3
Speed ​​(Speed ​​is a physical quantity which allows the evolution of a quantity as a function of time to be assessed.) Cruising 750 km / h at 9.600 m
Ceiling (By extension, a ceiling represents the maximum of something :) operational 12.000 m
Crossing distance 1.350 km - 7.800 km
Ivtchenko Progress D-4 turboprop engine
Power (The word power is used in several fields with a particular meaning :) 10.300 kW each



for point b) this is the price of RetD

Let's go (the dates correspond to the first flight of the aircraft in version with counter-rotating propellers):

Macchi Castoldi MC-72: 07/1931 (speed record holder for piston engine seaplane since 1934)
Koolhoven FK-55: 30/06/1938 (prototype)
Payen Pa.112 C1: for info (life-size model in 1938)
Fairey Battle: 30/06/1939 (prototype)
Bolkhotinov S-2: 03/1940 (prototype)
SNCAC NC-110: for info (under construction at the time of the armistice of June 1940)
Bugatti 100 P: for info (almost finished at the time of the armistice of June 1940)
Denny OQ-2A: for info (flying target ordered in series in 1941 in the USA)
Kawanishi E15K: 1941 (small series)
Kawanishi N1K1: 06/05/1942 (prototype)
Curtiss XP-60C: 27/01/1943 (prototype)
Curtiss XP-62: 21/07/1943 (prototype)
Northrop XP-56: 06/09/1943 (prototypes)
Curtiss XF14C-2: 09/1943 (prototype)
Fisher P-75A: 17/11/1943 (prototypes)
Kawasaki Ki-74: 11/1943 (prototype)
Latécoère 299A: for information (destroyed by bombing on 30 / O4 / 1944, before its 1st flight)
Republic XP-72: 26/06/1944 (prototype)
Douglas XB-42: 06/05/1944 (prototypes)
Martin Baker MB-5: 23/05/1944 (prototype)
Boeing XF8B-1: 27/11/1944 (prototypes)
Hawker Fury: 27/11/1944 (prototype)
Supermarine Spitfire Mk XIV: 1944? (test copies)
Supermarine Spitfire Mk 21:? (test copies?)
Supermarine Spitfire Mk 22:? (test copies?)
Supermarine Spitfire Mk 24:? (test copies?)
Curtiss XBTC-2: 01/1945 (prototype)
Douglas XTB2D-1: 08/05/1945 (prototypes)
Arsenal VB-10: 07/07/1945 (small series)
Supermarine Seafire Mk 45: 1945? (test copies)
Supermarine Seafire Mk 46: 1945 (series)
Supermarine Spiteful Mk 15: 1945? (prototype?)
Short Sturgeon: 07/06/1946 (series)
Northrop XB-35: 25/06/1946 (prototypes)
Hughes XF-11: 07/07/1946 (prototype)
Westland Wyvern (pistons): 16/12/1946 (pre-series)
Supermarine Seafire Mk 47: 1946 (series)
Supermarine Seafang Mk 32: 1946? (Pre-production)
Supermarine Seagull: 14/07/1948 (prototypes)
Westland Wyvern (turboprop): 18/01/1949 (series)
Avro Shackleton: 09/03/1949 (series)
SO-8000 Narval: 01/04/1949 (prototypes)
Bristol Brabazon: 04/09/1949 (prototype)
Fayrey Gannet: 19/09/1949 (series)
Blackburn YA.7: 09/1949 (prototypes)
Douglas XA2D-1: 26/05/1950 (prototypes)
North American XA2J-1: 04/01/1952 (prototypes)
Saunders Roe Princess: 22/08/1952 (prototype)
Tupolev Tu-4: for info (Tu-95 engine test)
Tupolev Tu-95-1? : 12/11/1952 (prototype)
Lockheed XFV-1: 16/06/1954 (prototype)
Convair XFY-1: 01/08/1954 (prototype)
Tupolev Tu-91: 02/09/1954 (prototype)
Tupolev Tu-95-2: 16/02/1955 (prototype)
Tupolev Tu-95M: 1957? (series)
Tupolev Tu-114: 03/10/1957 (series)

Miscellaneous: two aircraft which I could not confirm the existence in propeller version
counter-rotating:
Hawker Tornado:? (counter-rotating propeller tests)
Curtiss P-36:? (counter-rotating propeller tests?)

[/ Quote]
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by nonoLeRobot » 26/10/09, 11:58

@Christophe

I don't know, it's cheaper than photovoltaics, it probably works more often, especially in winter. The service life on the other hand is surely shorter (moving parts therefore more fragile).

On that you deduct a tax credit of 8000 euros and it is profitable and easy to install.

Anyway, I'm like you, I don't believe in subsidies in general, but even subsidize as much as it is as profitable as possible.
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by Christophe » 26/10/09, 12:07

Uh nono, not except at the seaside, the wind turbine works less often than the PV, especially in urban areas, with the exception of styling in certain skyscraper areas or even the cathedral square in Strasbourg where there is always wind!

Maloche, I did not say that it did not exist, but it is still rare, see confidential and your listing proves it right?

Now the problem in wind power is not exactly the same as in aeronautics (there may be other disadvantages, starting with aeronautical overload) ...

In any case, the technique seems a little too easy to me to spawn a "revolutionary wind turbine" ... no pun intended!

Do not forget that what counts above all in the recoverable power is the normal wind collection surface and the elements seem small on this point!

Well, what about the rotary rotary counter in hydraulics? : Idea:
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by nonoLeRobot » 26/10/09, 13:29

I would like to have the comparison of productions, but CO2 level, wind is more advantageous than photovoltaics in general: http://www.manicore.com/documentation/serre/kaya.html
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