What does a recent car really cost

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What does a recent car really cost




by jean63 » 13/01/08, 12:25

What your car really costs you

Herve Rousseau

07/11/2007

You have to think about taking into account not only the purchase itself, but also the maintenance of your vehicle. (François Bouchon / Le Figaro)
Safer, more comfortable, more efficient ... new cars are also more expensive to maintain. What there is to know.
Automobile enthusiasts have reason to rejoice. Over the next few months, new products will follow one another. The only French Renault, Peugeot and Citroën will offer at least one new model per month. Competition plays in favor of lovers of four wheels who will soon have new reasons to give in to their desires.

Will this be enough to revive registrations? Over the past eight years, the share of car purchases in the household budget has fallen, according to a study by INSEE. Even if the prices of beautiful sedans and 4 × 4 generally remain above 30 euros. The new Laguna has an entry price of 000 euros. But, as soon as you want to add a few comfort and security options, the rating increases. It costs 30 euros for the Laguna III diesel 450 liter, equipped with a particle filter (a real plus for the environment) and an on-board GPS. At BMW, the entry ticket is 22 euros for the series and 000 for the 37 Series, without the options (800 euros for the comfort package which includes the lane departure warning system).


More complex cars

If you give in to temptation, consider not only the purchase itself, but also the maintenance of your vehicle. Indeed, the share of maintenance and repairs has increased by about 35% since 1998, 2,5 times more than inflation.

Going to the garage for a simple routine maintenance can therefore hold unpleasant surprises. Over 800 euros for the complete overhaul of a Laguna III according to L'Auto Journal, 1 euros for a Porsche 500. The reasons for this inflation are many. The price of spare parts has increased, driven by soaring prices for raw materials, but above all by technological developments. Electronics-related repairs remain essentially the preserve of dealers, which is far from favoring competition from independent garages, as INSEE underlines in this same study.

Cherry on the cake, the simplest interventions can turn to the Chinese puzzle on certain models. It takes an hour to change the bulb of a headlight of Audi A8 and an hour and a half for that of a Renault Modus, according to Norauto. An operation that can hardly be performed at home, since it is necessary to dismantle part of the front of the vehicle. Consequence, to change a lighthouse, count 45 to 100 euros of labor, depending on the networks. And, with that, you did not pay for the bulb, or around thirty euros for the Audi.

The prices of the most innocuous parts seem to have also climbed, technological evolution obliges. Thus, Bosch has developed a new flat wiper blade, supposed not to deteriorate with the frost or heat, but, in return, it is necessary to pay 30 euros to acquire a pair, against 20 euros for those of the previous generation. Another seemingly harmless piece: candles. And yet, they have inherited technologies from motor racing, have become self-cleaning (when they are designed using yttrium, a rare metal) and their price has increased from 4 to 7 euros on average. But, in the end, the consumer should be a winner: a motorist can travel 60 kilometers with a new generation candle instead of 000. This is one of the main credos of brands: spare parts are more expensive , but they last longer. In fact, there is no shortage of examples. The catalytic converters are six times more expensive than their predecessors, the injection carburetors which equip most diesels, three times more expensive ...


source: http://www.lefigaro.fr/conso/2007/11/07 ... oiture.php

it really doesn't make me want to buy a recent car. : Evil:

800 euros for a visit (complete overhaul) of a Laguna III is crazy.

An hour and a half of labor to replace a bulb of Modus (small Renault car) ....... + the price of the bulb: it is expensive the burnt bulb .... etc. ........... etc.

I will keep my R25 as long as possible.

THIS IS A SCAM !!!!!!
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by louphil » 13/01/08, 14:34

it really doesn't make me want to buy a recent car. Evil or Very Mad

800 euros for a visit (complete overhaul) of a Laguna III is crazy.

An hour and a half of labor to replace a bulb of Modus (small Renault car) ....... + the price of the bulb: it is expensive the burnt bulb .... etc. ........... etc.

I will keep my R25 as long as possible.

THIS IS A SCAM !!!!!!


+1

I had plans to part with my old 504 coupes and convertibles in order to clean up my finances to the detriment of my unhealthy attachment to them. I wonder if keeping them, equipping them with LPG and / or pantone, or even making them drink HVB by the latter would not be more judicious ... The more I think about it, the more it seems to me a valid idea ... it if I put my hands in the sludge, galley to find the missing rare piece, etc; something that less and less people want and justifies the purchase of recent cars, which despite everything require less and less maintenance, whatever one may say ...

On the other hand, the simple fact, more and more frequent or even systematic, of on-board electronics / IT, implies a compulsory return to the dealer; and buying a vehicle today is more like getting a subscription from the dealer than buying it. Soon, the engine hoods will be sealed, in the same way as some software in the computer world ... But in this particular area, things are moving, and there is opposition to this kind of practices which have tendency to rule out all competition, thanks to the movement of free or open-source software ...

It was also a comparison often used by the latter, which put forward, that a consumer would probably not buy a vehicle whose hood would be openable only by the dealer, thus prohibiting any benign intervention as would it be an unfortunate emptying or a change of candles on its own ...

Well, here we are, we are not very far from it, if we consider that we are not already there ...
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by Other » 13/01/08, 18:32

Hello
800 euros for a visit (complete overhaul) of a Laguna III is crazy.


What is expensive is to open the garage door and the white coats of mechanics : Cheesy:

Often we say At Mercedes it costs an Arm for the visit to the garage it is true, but for the parts it is false
A fuel filter for injectors and pipe joints costs less at Mercedés than at WV
Fuel filter $ 12,66 for a 300D


the wheel discs with the pads are barely more expensive than the other cars, but you drive 140 km before changing the pads, double the time than the others.

I have rarely seen a garage make a reduction of 15% because it is an old model (usually they tell you discontinued parts)
When a clean 24-year-old car is still on the road, it's free advertising for the brand.

Andre
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by Remundo » 13/01/08, 18:46

Of course there are too many electronics now. On the other hand, dear econologists, no anti-pollution standard could be met without electronic injection! ... unless, indirectly from a "CO2 balance" point of view, you water your totos with HVB or bioethanol.

But now, we can't even lower the window without going through a processor, and I'm not talking about what's in the boxes, namely the replacement of the steering column by a sensor that will send orders to the wheels to steer (steer by wire). With a battery failure, it will no longer be possible to maneuver your cash register at the bottom of the garage : Evil:

I believe that electronics should be limited to where it is essential: injection / valve control, and a little ABS / ESP.

Life is not simple :P
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by Remundo » 13/01/08, 18:49

And I forgot, for the price of repairs, it's a scam, it's clear : Evil:

They amuse the gallery by taking their great airs of specialists with their electronic diagnostic case.

He connects their mess like a USB key and concludes after 10 minutes that it is necessary to change "the whole box" and that another even more competent specialist is needed to reset the system. : Lol:

And you are for 400 Euros and 2 weeks of immobilization of your Dear car.

All this is not worth a skillfully placed screwdriver or hammer like a 504 Cabrio !!
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by elephant » 13/01/08, 19:02

louphil said:

On the other hand, the simple fact, more and more frequent or even systematic, of on-board electronics / IT, implies a compulsory return to the dealer; and buying a vehicle today is more like getting a subscription from the dealer than buying it. Soon, the engine hoods will be sealed, in the same way as some software in the computer world ... But in this particular area, things are moving, and there is opposition to this kind of practices which have tendency to rule out all competition, thanks to the movement of free or open-source software ...


he is absolutely right, it becomes nightmarish: some computers for multiplexed cars (500 to 1200 euros / piece) are for single use: they are validated at the factory for the car on which they are mounted, it is possible to replace accessories, but the calculator cannot be reset, even in an agency! No question of recovering one from a damaged car.

Some tips: do not try to start a Mercedes with the cables connected to another car: you risk inflicting a fatal overvoltage on the injection computer.
Worse: on a recent Peugeot, it is absolutely necessary to wait 5 minutes after stopping the engine before disconnecting the battery: otherwise the computer crashes and you are good for resetting in the agency.
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by louphil » 13/01/08, 19:20

It is clear that electronics have enabled advances in engine management. The proof is that on a V6 504 coupe, I was forced at one point to turn the electronic ignition to replace it with a classic, the parts having become untraceable or absolutely overpriced. If my memories are good, the sensor was nase and I would have had to pay not far from 300 € for an unfortunate simple winding placed judiciously. At the time it was still in francs (92 or 93 ...). I dare not even imagine the price of the calculator if it was still available ...
I grant you that in the meantime reliability has improved significantly. But to stick it everywhere, there is a limit ...
What makes me jump the most is this way of captivating customers ... That is why I compared the automobile to IT because when we sell a PC, there is a "Windows" on it (supposedly offered and which accounts for around 20% of the price of the bike) in 99,99% of the cases. It's called forced sale and it's illegal !!! The car gets the same ... and the car manufacturers are doing everything to get closer to this business model, which I repeat is illegal ...
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by delnoram » 13/01/08, 19:57

louphil wrote: This is why I compared the automobile to IT because when we sell a PC, there is a "Windows" on it (supposedly offered and which accounts for around 20% of the price of the bike) in 99,99% of the cases. It's called forced sale and it's illegal !!! The car gets the same ... and the car manufacturers are doing everything to get closer to this business model, which I repeat is illegal ...


Yes again that on the PC, nothing prevents you from formatting the DD and installing a version of Linux, while on a car ....
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by Philippe Schutt » 13/01/08, 20:00

Remundo wrote:Of course, there are too many electronics now. On the other hand, dear econologists, no anti-pollution standard could be met without electronic injection!

to have. injection cars used more fuel than cars, even without a catalytic converter
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by jean63 » 13/01/08, 20:36

Remundo wrote:
I had plans to part with my old 504 coupes and convertibles in order to clean up my finances to the detriment of my unhealthy attachment to them. I wonder if keeping them, equipping them with LPG and / or pantone, or even making them drink HVB by the latter would not be more judicious ... The more I think about it, the more it seems to me a valid idea ... it if I put my hands in the sludge, galley to find the missing rare piece, etc; something that less and less people want and justifies the purchase of recent cars, which despite everything require less and less maintenance, whatever one may say ...

Do not throw your 504 cabrio and coupe, it was super nice cars; keep them in collection (if more than 25 years, once the control passed, more control but not the right to leave the department or neighboring depots) !!!!

For the parts I know something, I had parts to replace on my 504 petrol from 1991 (gear lever on the floor and electric front windows, but carburetor and no electronics; 10 liters of super 98/100 km with additive to replace lead).

I have always managed to find parts, but never at Peugeot. I even recently had the address of a parts dealer for 504 in the Auvergne region. If that interests you, I have the address of an Auvergne dealer who sells parts for 504.

In fact, I use it every year in July to go on vacation. I go to Marseille then Corsica with loading on the roof (roof box and windsurfing board) and 3 bikes at the rear on a bicycle rack fixed on the trailer hitch .... seen from the rear we no longer know that it is a 504. Since 1993 that I bought it used 4500 francs at 160000 km, I have made 110000 km (it also went to the Alps at high altitude, bad paths).

She is super reliable. I never needed assistance for a breakdown. The few little glitches I had, I paid for them myself at the campsite (turntable screws ...), exhaust pierced: there I had trouble finding the part (especially in Corsica) and finally I 've had after 15 days and a local mechanic replaced it ... so nothing is impossible !!!

It does not drive a lot (3 to 4000 kms / year) but frankly I am super quiet with this car, but I know its very simple mechanics well (must be said that we would put 2 engines under the hood because there is so much room ( 1/4 hour to change starter, 1/2 hour for the alternator, no timing belt but a chain ..... extraordinary accessibility). It scares me when I see modern "engines with air conditioning ..etc, no accessibility, I close the hood and I run away ..

In the trunk I have a starter, an alternator, new belts ..... good after of course if I have a big glitch, the car stays put. I have not decided if I will do the trip again this year, but there is a good chance (technical control is OK since last August).

On my R25 2,2 electronic injection from 1989, it takes 3 hours to dismantle and reassemble the starter which is wedged between the intake manifold and the engine cradle: a horror .... and the car is almost 20 years old.

On today's cars, the only simple vehicles may be the basic diesels (not Hdi) and the Logan (too bad it is so ugly).
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