Rethinking the economy (neither ultra-liberal nor state-owned)

Books, television programs, films, magazines or music to share, counselor to discover ... Talk to news affecting in any way the econology, environment, energy, society, consumption (new laws or standards) ...
User avatar
democrate
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 11
Registration: 04/03/06, 17:58
Location: FRANCE, Aquitaine

Rethinking the economy (neither ultra-liberal nor state-owned)




by democrate » 25/03/07, 12:43

The finality of Bolshevik communism being the dictatorship of the proletariat (including a state economy) this system that did not work is self-collapsing in 1991.
The finality of capitalism being the consumer society (happiness is to have) and the power of money. We are there now and it induces serious deregulation (climatic, economic and social) at the global levels.
The intermediate model chosen by the Chinese Communists which is the dictatorship of the party (undemocratic system) with an ultra-liberal economy and a consumer society is still alive and other more democratic communist models also survive in the world.
The purpose of a true democratic system is the same rights for all, even if we are different (sex, religions, beliefs etc.) we are part of the same society and without bringing an ideological dictatorship, political or left. But for this to work it must also include an economy not to make the mistake of Bolshevik communism. State economies do not work because an economy can not be planned and forced. Nor can it be totally free (without real rules ie ultra liberalized) as it is currently in the world. Currently economic globalization = global economic war (and also something else because it is also a devious way to arrive at a type of society without countries, societies but simply large global communities easily controllable but it is a simple analysis .. .), that is, the law of the strongest and what generates the total deregulation of the different economies of the countries of this world. So the future is in a regulated market economy so more ethical and a
reframing of the consumer society. That is to say no longer present the consumer society as a model and fewer psychological transfers on objects and things. It's not because you have the latest car X or the latest TV Y or you wear such a brand of clothing that you are someone of values. In short, it feels to exist through objects. So in this system the market economy remains (ie supply and demand) only the consumer no longer exists it becomes a conscious human being that happiness does not go through the psychological transfer on objects and its accumulation to feel exist (accumulation and production of these objects which also have serious consequences on the planet) He buys objects because it is useful to him simply. The system is changed because men have changed. Objects produced and traded in adaptation to current and future challenges is at the end of oil and adaptation to global warming and climate change.
Supply is the demand still exists (the economy and the trade will always exist) but the demand has changed, it is less consuming and more in agreement ethically. Also the economy has changed, ie not ultra liberal but regulated various rules and laws.
0 x
Never be afraid to sit down for a moment to think. (L.Hansberry)
www.chez.com/societe
User avatar
elephant
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6646
Registration: 28/07/06, 21:25
Location: Charleroi, center of the world ....
x 7




by elephant » 25/03/07, 14:07

Thank you Democrat for this lesson of morality, unless it is strictly political-fiction

I will allow myself to add some caustic corrections, which are not a criticism of your comments, but the sad reality ......

The purpose of Bolshevik communism being the dictatorship of the proletariat


The dictatorship of the oligarchy that stood at the head of the party by intrigue, torture, arbitrary arrests and murder or genocide ...

The finality of capitalism being the consumer society (happiness is to have) and the power of money.


Only the power of a certain oligarchy that controls the money


The intermediate model chosen by the Chinese Communists which is the dictatorship of the party


see above in Bolshevism

the law of the strongest


why there is another ??

And in our beautiful quinqa of Europe, the thinking heads of the commission can only throw us hand and foot bound in the nets of the capitalists (I said do not arrive, I do not deny that real efforts are facts, but the results are there.The plague is European competition policy)
0 x
elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
User avatar
delnoram
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 1322
Registration: 27/08/05, 22:14
Location: Mâcon-Tournus
x 2




by delnoram » 25/03/07, 16:52

elephant wrote:I will allow myself to add some caustic corrections, which are not a criticism of your comments, but the sad reality ......


+1
0 x
"Thinking should not it be taught in school rather than to make learning by heart the facts that are not all proven?"
"It's not because they are likely to be wrong they are right!" (Coluche)
User avatar
democrate
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 11
Registration: 04/03/06, 17:58
Location: FRANCE, Aquitaine

Answer to elephant




by democrate » 25/03/07, 18:57

elephant wrote:Thank you Democrat for this lesson of morality, unless it is strictly political-fiction


In response to elephant. Foreseeing the future which does not really have one anymore (climatic disturbances and warming have already started). Catastrophic consequences of globalization and an ultra-liberal world economy, too. Main energy which feeds our social and economic system: oil will no longer be a profitable energy and is far from being adapted to our environment, moreover it is running out. In short, it's not political fiction, it's realism. And I remind you that I am not an ecologist, simply realistic of the current deterioration of our ecosystem, climate and the end of the fossil fuel "oil" which allowed us to reach this technical level. That we must and will have to rethink and change many things: society, economy, energies, values ​​etc. But the issues are not also simply environmental and environmental issues. They are multiple because ultra liberalism also causes a lot of damage. In facts and in consciousness (feeling to exist in relation to objects and things and believing oneself to be better because one has the last car X, the television set Y, the clothing H etc.). And globalization is destroying the societies, countries, peoples and cultures of this world. And brings us to a communitarian world, that is to say a complete step backwards ....


elephant wrote:And in our beautiful quinqa of Europe, the thinking heads of the commission can only throw us hand and foot bound in the nets of the capitalists (I said do not arrive, I do not deny that real efforts are facts, but the results are there.The plague is European competition policy)


For the current European system well I agree with you although pro-European I voted no to the constitution proposed some time ago. And I propose on my blog another form of Europe (more democratic, social, fair and values)
http://blog.france2.fr/democrate/
see article on Europe
Thank you elephant and it is with joy that I will discuss with you. :D
0 x
Never be afraid to sit down for a moment to think. (L.Hansberry)

www.chez.com/societe
ThierrySan
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 406
Registration: 08/01/07, 11:43
Location: South West




by ThierrySan » 26/03/07, 12:51

I agree with you that the moral values ​​of our society have disappeared to the detriment of others, which are not moral but material values. You should know that some products are developed today (or publicized) in such a way that the consumer is manipulated and feels obligated to buy it if he wants to be happy and / or exist. All this thanks to a method called study in cognitive marketing, it seems to me. The goal here is no longer to sell a product that is good for the consumer, but to ensure that the consumer is attracted to the product and that is to create dependency. Studies cited on S&V prove that current marketing methods focus on cognitive and feelings.
The real problem today is that it is allowed to go under the pretext of progressing in behavioral study. However, there are other ways for these theories to be tested. And I think that they must remain in the closets of universities and research centers in order to better understand the cerebral mechanisms. In any case, such methods would have been accepted 50 years ago. Advertising was already known as propaganda and signifies the negative and manipulative aspect that it can have on its reader. For my part, I think that such methods should be removed from our TVs. This has already been done with subliminal images, but since then, there has not been much on this subject ... Especially, that even products are developed in such a way as to create desire and desire , so to get hold of it at any price: textures, visual design, scent or noises ... Therefore, an emotional manipulation, the most treacherous!
I would not describe the parallel with beautiful women, but it's exactly the same thing !! : Mrgreen:

Then, in terms of international trade, we thought we could compete between our production systems and the countries where labor is the least expensive. The present shows us that we were wrong. The first important thing about an unbalanced market is the need to restore fair value to products through customs balancing in the countries receiving these products. To counter this wild competition (I do not think there is any other word to describe it), you have to go through it. Indeed, we note that the savagery of the markets and the economic price war has soared since we passed free competition, a few years ago by the WTO. Now that we know that between the other China was waiting for that to flood any market of its products (for example the textile in France on 2006 to compare with 2005) and that it can do it quickly, it is time today to re-balance the balance by meaning that: either it increases wages at home, or it will be taxed by the importing countries of its products ...

Then, on politics, I do not think that an extremist policy will bring much. I only think that you have to be as objective as possible in the face of problems and that it is not because you are left or right that you have to solve the problem in such a way that the label you represent always wins. The results can be weighted ...
And, we must not believe that it is because a country is democratic that there is no inequality. Everyone has the same rights. The French system, for example, which wants to be a democratic model is far from it. It may also be one of the reasons why so many people are dissatisfied in France: we do not feel listened to, we do not feel represented politically, and we vote for the lesser that will not do too much damage. .. On the theme of democracy in France today, I agree with the opinion of Elephant. We came out in 1789 of the monarchical system to enter a dictatorial republican system with emperors. Whatever may be said, an emperor is an emperor! We are today in a system still managed by the same oligarches of the eighteenth, even if others have managed to make a place ...
Finally, to detail this last point, we would need a historian to whom we could draw the worms ... Yuck! : Shock: : Mrgreen:

There would be so much to say about democracy, capital movements and their investments, prices, company structures, the state, identity ...
For example, is the state not a common desire to live in common with the same laws ?! Is identity a brake for the development of the state, knowing that in this one, many people of different identities have made concessions to achieve a state ?! Do new and different cultures have their place in a state that already has its own history since it is already a meeting of different cultures ?! (for example, in France, Breton, Basque, Gascon, Corsican and other DOM-TOM ...)

There is a lot to say about these topics! However, we are not so badly off in France, compared to other countries ... But does that prevent us from trying to live even better ?!
0 x

Back to "Media & News: TV shows, reports, books, news ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 156 guests