The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!

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The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!




by Christophe » 21/12/18, 15:12

Four NGOs and more than a million signatures against global warming ... want to file a complaint against the government for climate "inaction" ... Well, it's not to defend the government on this occasion but France, thanks nuclear power, is one of the richest countries with the most virtue in terms of CO2 ... See the energy intensity curves ...

"L'affaire du Siècle" becomes the most signed petition in history in France, a sign of a real climatic leap

This is one of the most beautiful signs of the French ecological awakening which took place during the second half of 2018. The petition "The Affair of the Century" against the French State for climate inaction will become the most signed before the one on the El Khomri law. This is an opportunity given to the Head of State, in the midst of the Yellow Vests crisis, to speak out again on the need for a just transition in ecological and social terms.


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Since the end of the summer 2018 and the resignation of Nicolas Hulot of the government, there has been a real ecological jump in France relayed by the two walks for the climate, the echo given to the report of the Giec or the unusual media coverage of the COP24 in Poland. The latest event is the threat to sue the French state for climate inaction launched by four NGOs: Greenpeace, Oxfam, the Foundation for Nature and Humankind (FNH) and the association Notre affaire à tous.

This announcement of 18 December, was accompanied by the launch of a petition whose impact is unexpected. In two days, it has collected more than a million signatures. And Friday, December 21, it has exceeded 1,3 million signatures, making it the most signed petition in history. It goes beyond the one demanding the withdrawal of Myriam El Khomri's Labor Law in 2016.

The text of the petition is a call for climate justice: "All over the world, citizens are seeking justice so that their fundamental rights are guaranteed in the face of climate change (...) So let's act for social and climate justice, let's take action justice so that France finally respects its commitments on the climate ".

A link with the yellow vests

This notion of social justice is not without reference to the current crisis of yellow vests. "While the investments necessary to remedy the disaster should be financed mainly by the better-off, the middle classes and the most disadvantaged today contribute in an undifferentiated way. The fight against climate change must not be done to the detriment of the more fragile ", write the four NGOs who rejoice at the" electroshock "caused by this text.

The success of the petition is also due to the panel of people who supported the text in a video that has been seen several million times on different social networks. Marion Cotillard, Juliette Binoche, the physicist Aurélien Barrau, the LEJ singers, the filmmaker Cyril Dion, the singer Abd Al Malik.

A response from the government

It remains to be seen how the government will respond to them. The Minister for the Ecological Transition, François de Rugy, reacted: "I am very happy that the citizens are mobilizing in numbers for the climate (…) On the mode of action, we can always discuss it again of course". But it is the word of President Emmanuel Macron that is expected.

Especially since it has just reacted to the petition yellow jackets against rising fuel prices. Launched in late November, it is approaching 1,2 million signatures as we write these lines. "You have suffered the full brunt of the rise in fuel prices, and have decided to react by signing this petition. Your message, I heard it. I am answering you directly: you are right," he wrote. "By calling me out with this petition, you have made a civic act. This dialogue, if you agree, I wish to continue it", he adds, calling for a meeting with the initiator Priscillia Ludosky.

Ludovic Dupin


Source: https://www.novethic.fr/actualite/envir ... 46741.html

Good on the bottom I agree: take action ... The specifications of the car of the future has been cooperatively defined here: new-transport / car-the-future-of-t6803.html
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Re: The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!




by Did67 » 21/12/18, 17:49

Here we find the duality already evoked elsewhere: to attack the government for inaction is one thing; acting directly, as responsible citizens (and not addicted citizens to a state that would be in charge of the problems) is another ...

The two are not incompatible elsewhere. But it bothers me a little: I would like to have the individual record of each, within the limits of what they can do (I expressed elsewhere my hesitations on the EV, for example) .. .

Sign a petition or the art of discarding ??? A click is an effort that millions can make. Do they just turn off the light when they leave a room, even turn it on again half an hour later when they come back?

The legal weapon is interesting in that it puts the government in front of laws that it was also happy to vote. He, his click, it's a law. There is a problem, it makes a law. Officially, the problem is solved because there is a law. So sometimes, the boomerang effect of a complaint can be interesting. I am not against it. I meant that it is not enough!
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Re: The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!




by Exnihiloest » 21/12/18, 18:38

Their anti-scientific and political activism combined with their lobbying power against democracy is staggering.
I have never voted for NGOs, who believe themselves to be above the others and want to impose it on everyone!
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Re: The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!




by perseus » 21/12/18, 18:48

Hello,

It smells of Com's simple action.

There is a kind of schizophrenia in these debates, we denounce the state that does not say anything, we would like a tax on a thing, trick or industry without ever addressing the issue of responsibility of each.
At the time when we talk about the RIC, I told myself that a referendum approach of this kind of question would be interesting, with something that would clarify the efforts, rights / duties of each (state, company, individuals).
History that we do not hide behind his little finger.

But OK...
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Re: The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!




by RV-P » 21/12/18, 21:11

- I will once again "cool down" your "smug enthusiasm" about the CO2!
- IPCC and all "related" scientists make a "fixette" on CO2 but they forget another component of hydrocarbons which is also a greenhouse gas: I named water vapor !
- A little chemistry to understand ...
* Let's take methane (CH4): if we burn it, we get 1 molecule of CO2 for ... 2 water molecules !
* If we take a heavier molecule (C5H12, for example), there is 5 molecules of CO2 for ... 6 water molecules !
- Now, I "soup sounds" strong steam more active for global warming than the CO2! Fossil hydrocarbons therefore produce more water vapor than CO2 (look at your muffler in winter!)! And that is what disturbs the climate (cyclones and storms more violent and more frequent) more than the CO2 because it is the water vapor which is the "engine" of the greatest climatic catastrophes today! Check!
- Cordially !
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Re: The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!




by izentrop » 21/12/18, 23:31

Christophe wrote:France, thanks to nuclear energy, is one of the most virtuous rich countries on the CO2 ... See energy intensity curves ...
Quite and it is wrong to think that the French state does nothing for the climate, but its ecological actions often lead to the opposite effect. :
Recently the EPP with the desire to reduce the nuclear 50% by 2028. On this point, the signatory NGOs agree that it goes against the goal.
Premiums to promote renewable energy that prove to be inefficient because of intermittence and lack of storage.
The "wood energy" law which has benefited new electricity production plants, an aberration eliminating a carbon sink, even with the promise of renewal, but with a delay of 30 years which will be quickly forgotten.

Green washing, even if those who sign believe to do a good deed.
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Re: The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!




by izentrop » 21/12/18, 23:40

RV-P wrote:I "soup sounds" strong steam more active for global warming than the CO2!
But its lifespan is low in the atmosphere while that of CO2 is 100 years.
water vapor creates what scientists call a "positive feedback loop" in the atmosphere - making any temperature change larger than it otherwise would have been.

How does this work? The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere exists in direct relation to the temperature. If you increase the temperature, more water will evaporate and become steam, and vice versa. Thus, when something else causes an increase in temperature (such as additional CO2 from fossil fuels), more water evaporates. Then, as water vapor is a greenhouse gas, this extra water vapor raises the temperature even further - a positive return.

To what extent does water vapor increase CO2 warming? Studies show that the return of water vapor doubles the warming caused by CO2. So, if there is a change in 1 ° C caused by CO2, the water vapor will raise the temperature of 1 ° C. When other feedback loops are included, global warming from a potential of 1 ° C the change caused by CO2 is, in reality, up to 3 ° C.

The other factor to consider is that the water evaporates from the land and sea and falls in the rain or snow all the time. Thus, the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere varies considerably in a few hours and days due to weather conditions. Thus, even though water vapor is the main greenhouse gas, its life is relatively short. On the other hand, CO2 is removed from the air by natural processes on a geological scale and their implementation takes a lot of time. As a result, CO2 stays in our atmosphere for years, even centuries. A small additional amount has a much longer effect.

Skeptics are right in saying that water vapor is the main greenhouse gas. What they do not mention is that the feedback loop of the water vapor accelerates even more the temperature changes caused by the CO2 ... https://www.skepticalscience.com/water- ... se-gas.htm
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Re: The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!




by Christophe » 22/12/18, 00:49

RV-P wrote:- I will once again "cool down" your "smug enthusiasm" about the CO2!
- IPCC and all "related" scientists make a "fixette" on CO2 but they forget another component of hydrocarbons which is also a greenhouse gas: I named water vapor !
- A little chemistry to understand ...
* Let's take methane (CH4): if we burn it, we get 1 molecule of CO2 for ... 2 water molecules !
* If we take a heavier molecule (C5H12, for example), there is 5 molecules of CO2 for ... 6 water molecules !


We are not IPCC and so I had already asked the question of water vapor a long time ago (before 2009 because I am referring here: energies-fossil-nuclear / nuclear-plant-and-Emissions-to-steam-and-water-t8511.html )

Read also: energies-fossil-nuclear / steam-and-water-and-effect-of-greenhouse-from-energy-nuclear-t9250.html

The duration of water in the atmosphere is 2 weeks ... CO2 120 years ... so "specialists" say that it does not influence the climate ...

I'm not so convinced because the more we burn hydrocarbon energy, the more we increase the amount of water on earth! I do not speak only in the air so ... Obviously the mass remains (and will remain) weak compared to the evaporation capacity of the oceans and the amount of water in the oceans ...

However, a twelfth in a system as complex as the climate can have effects ...

RV-P wrote:- Now, I "soup sounds" strong steam more active for global warming than the CO2! Fossil hydrocarbons therefore produce more water vapor than CO2 (look at your muffler in winter!)! And that is what disturbs the climate (cyclones and storms more violent and more frequent) more than the CO2 because it is the water vapor which is the "engine" of the greatest climatic catastrophes today! Check!


Not true: 1 L petrol or diesel fuel produces 2,3 2,6 Kg of CO2 for about 1kg of water ...

See calculations here: https://www.econologie.com/emissions-co ... el-ou-gpl/

But it is quite possible that the excess water that we send into the "system" disturbs it (see my remark above)
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Re: The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!




by Christophe » 22/12/18, 00:53

izentrop wrote:But its lifespan is low in the atmosphere while that of CO2 is 100 years.


Yes I always read that a molecule of water remained about and on average 2 weeks in the air before condensing ...

But it's not just the atmosphere that counts, as I just said: we enrich the "climate system" with water: in other words we create "liquid or gas" mass while reducing the mass of the atmosphere with all the O2 that is taken from it ...
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Re: The Case of the Century: Warming up the Tribunal!




by Christophe » 22/12/18, 00:58

izentrop wrote:Quite and it is wrong to think that the French state does not do anything for the climate, but its ecological actions often lead to the opposite effect


It is not the state that must be targeted but the car manufacturers, among others, and not only in France!

I have always been wary of Greenpeace: some suspect that foreign powers are behind (or "unclear" funding) to attack the French industry, nuclear in particular ...
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