GDP, growth and ecology: why is it blocking?

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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GDP, growth and ecology: why is it blocking?




by Christophe » 17/09/07, 10:55

Here is a small reflection of the beginning of the week which could explain many things about the current blockages at the level of political decisions in favor of the environment.

I would like to start a common reflection by trying to be the most accurate (according to my weak knowledge in economics), clear and concise possible ...

1ere part: the paradoxes of the GDP

You all know that the only The economic index that interests the policies is GDP.

GDP does not measure wealth (in the capital sense) since it measures the amount of value added, ie industrial production and trade (although 2 is linked, but it is not wealth, see example below).

Thus, economists are satisfied with this index which does not measure wealth to measure the good economic health of a country: the famous GROWTH.

Urban artist laughable thing, GDP is not corrected by inflation, so do you think we can talk about growth when GDP is 2% while inflation over the same period is 3%?

This is the 1er paradox of GDP: it is not corrected by inflation.

In addition, this famous inflation is also completely distorted, for example, it does not take real estate into account ... otherwise it would date or even exceed the 2 figures! Should not panic the crowds (and turn the printing press too much) ... and that would induce considerable increases in wages (of the same order as real inflation) to remain at the same famous "purchasing power" ...

In this context more than before: the owners get richer, tenants (or new owners renters of their banker) impoverished ... But real estate is not the subject of debate.

But one thing is more certain: taking into account all the corrections, the decay would be there ...

Example

Let's take a small example to better understand the heresy of GDP, example related to the familly bubble:

a) A well-off family has the means to do food shopping (for example) for a duration of 1 months + 1 day. During this month, she will not buy anything and therefore its contribution to GDP will be NIL.

b) A family b) much more modest, single-parent, the mother alternating the interim period manages her budget as best she can in "tight flow". So she has to do her shopping every 3 days because she obviously cannot store large quantities since she simply does not have the necessary funds.
Over a period of one month, family b) will have contributed significantly to GDP.

This example can very well be reported at the scale of a country, thus according to the single criterion of the GDP, the family b), poorer, is in better shape, lives better and is by analogy (in the spirit of the media and people) is richer than the family a), easy... and this is true even if the family a) spends 10 times more than the family b) ...

This is the 2ieme paradox of GDP: the inability to estimate a wealth capital

Conclusion: we can therefore say that the GDP can estimate the enrichment and the economic activity of a country over a given period but in no case neither the capital nor the wealth of this country, but of course the exchanges depend on the capital (mining, agricultural, industrial, tourist ...).

Corollary: Why is economic decline so scary since it is not synonymous with poverty?

Edit, here are the corresponding 2 news:
https://www.econologie.com/pib-croissanc ... -3484.html
https://www.econologie.com/pib-developpe ... -3483.html
Last edited by Christophe the 25 / 02 / 08, 11: 10, 2 edited once.
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by gilgamesh » 17/09/07, 12:57

Hi Christopher,

I also discovered that we posted quite similar ideas simultaneously. You have very well presented the problem of the GDP and as we take for con con ...
It is true that we must go to the origins of the problems even if it is important to change the small details in our daily life ..
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by Christophe » 17/09/07, 13:20

8) thank you and here is the corresponding news:

https://www.econologie.com/pib-developpe ... -3483.html

Wait to read the rest of the argument ... it should please you ... but here it is still in my head ... it is built
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Re: GDP, growth and ecology: why is it blocking?




by crispus » 19/09/07, 20:16

Christophe wrote:In addition, this famous inflation is also completely distorted, for example, it does not take real estate into account ... otherwise it would date or even exceed the 2 figures! Should not panic the crowds (and turn the printing press too much) ... and that would induce considerable increases in wages (of the same order as real inflation) to remain at the same famous "purchasing power" ...

In this context more than before: the owners get richer, tenants (or new owners renters of their banker) impoverished ... But real estate is not the subject of debate.

And yet, we are not far. Go see by curiosity the share of spending by households on their housing, it is edifying:
http://www.insee.fr/fr/indicateur/indic ... ipc.htm#q3
Yes, in 2007 the French devote only 13,7% of their resources to their housing: rent or loan repayment, but also water, electricity or heating. Compared to 16% used for transport. One wonders what our ridiculous econological efforts are for trying to reduce such a modest bill : Mrgreen:

And no economist to note the absurdity of these figures that govern the economic and political orientations ....

As for inflation, as you recall in your post, it is "controlled" by skilfully measuring unemployment by the so-called NAIRU method, it is also edifying:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAIRU
http://lenairu.free.fr/pages/17alhomepag.html
The NAIRU, the unemployment rate below which it is important not to go down (yes you read correctly!), Is the modern devil: the unemployment that results is used to scare citizens and employees. In order to make them more docile ...

: Evil: : Evil: : Evil: : Evil:
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by Christophe » 19/09/07, 21:06

In the same kind of Nairu: the deficit of the state (see the appendices of your tax form) ...you imagine that it is inconceivable that it is surplus, otherwise it would be necessary to reduce the taxes on the field ...
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by gilgamesh » 19/09/07, 22:10

We find more and more evidence that the theory of the conspiracy is not so much fault and our conception of "reality" is very limited precisely because half it is well-orchestrated lies that are presented to us as scientific truth. .
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by gilgamesh » 20/09/07, 11:04

I still want to agree that the NAIRU it suits me a lot the FUELECONOMINDEX which determines how much a car has to spoil fuel to be profitable for the bosses of the world. Curiously the new twingo is more greedy than the old .... The efficiency that we gain with new technology (turbo, direct injection, commonrail etc) are transformed into CV and we are offered cars with 200 horses that make 250 km / h - well it's forbidden to go so fast mias I little if I want ???? We see no serious effort to make economical cars
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by Coin » 23/09/07, 10:59

Hello,
I am not at all an expert in eco, but my feeling on the subject joins your theory.
GDP is an index like any other, which measures wealth creation (or activity of a population) according to a well-established definition.
From my point of view too, it seems to me totally incompatible with sustainable development. Indeed, while a polluting industrial activity will generate GDP throughout its production, it will mortgage our future environment (notion of sustainable development).
Is not it time to focus on an index that adds the wealth creations and subtracts the cost of cleanup?
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by crispus » 23/09/07, 15:28

Coin wrote:Is not it time to focus on an index that adds the wealth creations and subtracts the cost of cleanup?

.

Is there a "specialist" on the forum to concoct us such a clue? "Sustainable GDP" is a seller, isn't it?
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HDI




by surfou » 24/09/07, 16:19

The Human Development Index is quite representative and comprehensive in terms of coverage.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indice_de_d%C3%A9veloppement_humain

Would you have others to propose?
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