Nuclear Sarko-Sego debate 17 50%% against: the facts

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Nuclear Sarko-Sego debate 17 50%% against: the facts




by Christophe » 03/05/07, 16:38

Here is the mailing sent by Jancovici, the energy-climatic expert, following the confusion of the debate last night.

I underlined the points on which the candidates were wrong or right and put in bold the things of general aspect with regard to the environment which I think important. So I say: Janco candidate in 2012? : Cheesy:

Dear journalists,

Those of you who watched the debate last night probably did not miss the little nuclear exchange, where each put forward wrong numbers by accusing their opponent of not knowing the good ones (funny, or worrying, it depends). By the way, no candidate has talked about oil (while a good big oil shock is difficult to exclude with certainty in the next 5 to 10 years, which would result in a large part of the promises "social" candidates would then be left in the locker room), or climate, while the 35 hours and retreats are not very prosperous on Mars or Venus. The environment has been reduced to an extremely small portion, while all our social gains are directly or indirectly linked to the good condition of the substrate on which we thrive, namely the earth system, with its resources, its stable climate and its biosphere. It is time that we forcefully remind ourselves that physics overdetermines our desires, and that it is not enough to stomp on the ground and say "I want" for us to have!

Anyway, this message is mainly intended to remind you of the nuclear figures, hoping that this will be useful for you to inform the elector who must not have understood much about it.

* The share of nuclear in electricity in France is around
80% (in other words 80% of the kWh produced by French power plants come from nuclear power plants), and therefore neither by 50% as Sarko said, nor by 17% as Ségo said (that I am I was sincerely expecting to see the correct figure quoted because she looked so sure of it).

* The share of nuclear power in the world is around
16% -17% (around 16% of the electric kWh consumed worldwide comes from nuclear power), which may explain the confusion on the Ségo side.

* The share of nuclear energy in final energy consumption in France (see this article to understand what final energy is: http://www.x-environnement.org/jr/JR04/jancovici.html ) is 17% (it can also explain the confusion on the Ségo side). But the share of nuclear in primary energy consumption in France (primary energy is that which is "extracted" somewhere from the earth's crust; the same article as the one previously cited also explains what primary energy is , isn't that wonderful?)) is around 35%.

* The share of primary energy consumed in France which is imported with few stocks here (in short, hydrocarbons of all kinds) is around 50% (that may explain the confusion on Sarko's side (note from Christophe: from very far then)). We sometimes speak of "energy independence" to give the share of primary energy consumption obtained without resorting to imports. Strictly speaking, it is very low (we will find 1% of oil and 3% of gas, wood, hydroelectricity, and that's about it). But it is customary to include nuclear as well, because uranium stocks cover several years of operation, and we are therefore "a little more independent" than for hydrocarbons, where we have only a few weeks of normal operation ( a few months in all, but the system is disorganized before reaching the end of stocks, of course),

* The EPR is a 3rd generation reactor (on this point Sarko is therefore wrong and Royal is right). 4th generation reactors: http://www.x-environnement.org/jr/JR04/huffer.html

* The accessible reserves of uranium 235 make it possible to supply several hundred times the annual consumption of the world's nuclear power plants (Ségo is therefore wrong on this point by talking about - from memory - about 20 or 30 years), but it is obviously much less with consumption increasing by 2% per year.

* Finally nuclear actually plays an important role in the fact
that French emissions are on average 25% lower than the European average (characteristic that we share with Switzerland and Sweden, on this point the order of magnitude advanced by Sarko is also the right one). A link is offered at the end of the message for those who want to see the calculations.

* one last point, not nuclear but climatic: Spain's "catching up" over the past 15 years was made possible because this country increased its consumption of hydrocarbons by 50% from 1990 to 2003. I let you meditate on how realistic it makes the promises made on both sides to see Africa "develop" to achieve something close to us, the implicit promise made to the countries entering Europe from Europe. 'Is "catching up" to our level of consumption,
etc. I hope that we will come back to it for the legislative .....

On that, I think that's it! If you could, on occasion,
informing voters of the "real" numbers, I'm sure they
would allow to get an idea of ​​the respective (in) skills on this precise subject, which is never useless ....


Best regards to all

Jean-Marc Jancovici

reminder useful links:
- primary energy consumption and final energy consumption:
http://www.x-environnement.org/jr/JR04/jancovici.html
- energy consumption and "choice of society":
http://www.manicore.com/documentation/a ... i2001.html
- 4th generation nuclear:
http://www.x-environnement.org/jr/JR04/huffer.html
- level of greenhouse gas emissions in France and electricity: http://www.manicore.com/documentation/c ... serre.html (despite its title, you will see!)
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by freddau » 04/05/07, 09:15

The problem is that here you almost preach converts

No?
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by Christophe » 04/05/07, 09:24

freddau wrote:The problem is that here you almost preach converts

No?


Well no, the proof here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/post50774.html#50774
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by nonoLeRobot » 04/05/07, 09:46

on average if still, but we preach where we can.

That said, it could be good news too.
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by goodeco » 04/05/07, 11:27

: Shock: It’s just appalling to see that the two candidates are really up for grabs. : Shock:

That sego sets a trap for sarko ok it's good war, but she had to prepare it with a team and not giving the right figure it's maddening.
As for sarko gives 50% response like that he is half right, and moreover he too has a team to prepare this kind of duel.
For a person who was a project manager at the Ministry of the Interior for the fight against chemical and radiological risks (see Chernobyl) and subsequently Minister of the Interior.
it's just as maddening.
Jean-Marc Jancovici is too nice to apologize to them.

For me they are just as phony as the other, when I think that one of the two candidates will be responsible for nuclear fire, that scares me.
A few years ago during televised debates, the candidate who did not know the price of a coffee or a baguette was pointed out and people said: another candidate who does not know the reality of the world in the world. what we live for.
He was very lucky not to have passed.

Jean-Marc Jancovici wrote: * The share of nuclear power in electricity in France is around
80% (in other words 80% of the kWh produced by French power plants come from nuclear power plants),

On wikipedia:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89nerg ... 4l.C3.A9es
It is mentioned that France had 78% nuclear electricity (Source: International Atomic Energy Agency, 31/12/2005).

And this is where I ask myself several questions:

: Arrow: A priori, we would have increased nuclear electricity consumption by 2% in almost two years.

: Arrow: In two years, the share of renewable energy with all the wind turbines that we have seen flowering all over France without counting all the other possibilities, which have not been used for much for the moment. : Cry:
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by Christophe » 04/05/07, 11:41

goodeco wrote:And this is where I ask myself several questions:

: Arrow: A priori, we would have increased nuclear electricity consumption by 2% in almost two years.


You quibble, 78% and 80% is the same thing given the fluctuations in consumption / production, for example, given the river flows, the share of hydroelectricity is much higher in early spring than in autumn ...

goodeco wrote: : Arrow: In two years, the share of renewable energy with all the wind turbines that we have seen flowering all over France without counting all the other possibilities, which have not been used for much for the moment. : Cry:


Currently, the production of French wind turbines is so low that it has no influence on the percentage of nuclear ... :|
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by Exceed » 04/05/07, 11:45

Yep !!! It's maddening !!!
When you see that they tell bullshit on such an important subject ... you have the right to ask yourself, to what extent, if for the rest of the promises, it is not the same !!! And there, it really sucks for our buttocks and those of our children !!!

Image I'm starving...
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by goodeco » 04/05/07, 17:33

Christophe wrote:
goodeco wrote:And this is where I ask myself several questions:

: Arrow: A priori, we would have increased nuclear electricity consumption by 2% in almost two years.


You quibble, 78% and 80% is the same thing given the fluctuations in consumption / production, for example, given the river flows, the share of hydroelectricity is much higher in early spring than in autumn ...

I quibble, I quibble…, finally :?:
I was talking about nuclear energy and not a whole.
Maybe in the 80% there is the share of what is sold to other countries.

Christophe stops listening to sego, and voila after we are wrong. : Mrgreen:



Christophe wrote:[Currently, the production of French wind turbines is so low that it has no influence on the percentage of nuclear ... :|


I had hoped it would feel a little more : Cry:
what is unfortunate is that we do not find the energy balance year by year for France
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by Christophe » 04/05/07, 19:04

goodeco wrote:I had hoped it would feel a little more : Cry:
what is unfortunate is that we do not find the energy balance year by year for France


Uh for 2006 and 2005 I would like to believe that you have a hard time finding but for the period before that should be fairly easy to find, right? Anyway it is quite stable ...

Did you search on this site: directory ?

Otherwise in this doc you have some curves but it is that concerning oil:
https://www.econologie.com/perspectives- ... -3091.html
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by freddau » 04/05/07, 21:26

Another aspect of the thing is that the problem of energy, you have to have a brown intelligence, a taste for technique

And as the problem is in fact not so easy as that to define ... it is necessary to have time to approach it, which the two there not necessarily.

I hope they will have a listening ear for Janco.
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