Gillier-pantone + LPG

[yael]

I apologize in advance if the question has already been raised, but I have not found by the search engine ...
And so my question is:
Can I use the water doping Gillier pantonne-type to a vehicle running on LPG gas ???
Thank you in advance.
Yael.

[I Citro]

Hello and welcome yael.

This idea was also part of my plans.
I was curious enough to see what that could give.
I have some duplicate parts for a transformation on safrane 2.2 if equipped with the GPL but I did not go to practice ...
(lack of time)
As I drive less and less with this car since I have electric vehicles, the result of the tests would be less convincing.

[Flytox]

Hello yael

Can I use the water doping Gillier pantonne-type to a vehicle running on LPG gas ???

Interesting question!

assumptions:
On the aspect gain in pollution it must be less spectacular than on an old diesel.
The mixture being 'homogeneous' and creating very few original particles.

For imbrulé and CO, the dosage of the amount of steam must be as sharp to find as on Gillier Pantone essence especially taking into account possible misfire ignition.

For NOx this should improve.

On the conso aspect, with a homogeneous gaseous mixture ??? Micro-explosions of water droplets will not split gas droplets ... The ignition / combustion time may change, but it remains to be seen if it is beneficial.
Usual conclusion, we must try

[Christophe]

It should work better on a LPG than on a diesel ... if only it is regulated.

The LPG combustion temperature is (somewhat) higher than the gasoline that is higher than diesel. Now the chamber T ° is clearly one of the main parameter of the efficiency of the doping with the water in the engines. So yes it will work well on an LPG ... provided you adapt the injection.

Without regulation, doping with water is useless ... no efficiency can be observed. On a diesel it is regulated by design of the injection pumps (AC regulates more or less well + variable load = explanation of the disparity of the results) but not on a motor with ignition ... must therefore play on the settings of the 'injection...

In other words: for water doping to run on LPG it will have to deplete your engine ... ideally by re-mapping ... but it hard to do ...

[Flytox]

... must play on the settings of the injection ...

In other words: for water doping to run on LPG it will have to deplete your engine ... ideally by re-mapping ... but it hard to do ...

Difficult indeed, it is necessary to deceive the information that reaches the injection box. Like making him believe that it is very hot, or that the pressure in the intake manifold is lower. All this with the lambda probe which makes its own feedback in the regulation loop. We can also lure the response of the lambda probe ...

It's always the same, on old machines little or not electronically, there is room for maneuver .... on recent machines liquid injection etc ... the level of difficulty increases very clearly

[I Citro]

My LPG cars (I only have one left) were all equipped with a multipoint gas LPG injection (EGI from NECAM KOLTEC). The passive injectors are arranged on the intake pipe at the same level as the fuel injectors, near the chapels.
The regulation of LPG injection uses dedicated mapping for each car model.
The LPG calculator works with for information, the intake depression, the position of the throttle valve, the engine revolutions and the lambda probe.

However, he has "self-adapting" faculties. It is the same for the gasoline computer which is "emulated". In LPG mode, an emulator unit switches the injector outputs of the petrol ECU into chokes, making the petrol ECU believe that it is continuing to control the injection, so the petrol ECU continues to manage the rest of the engine operation (ignition, idle regulation , control of accessories such as air conditioning, etc.)

So I did not ask too much about changing the GPL settings with a Gillier-Pantone doping ...

My main concern was how to measure the Pantone gases.
Losing myself in conjectures, I did not push further ...

[Flytox]

Hello Citro

The regulation of LPG injection uses dedicated mapping for each car model.
The LPG calculator works with for information, the intake depression, the position of the throttle valve, the engine revolutions and the lambda probe.

However, he has faculties "self-adaptation".
So I did not ask too much about changing the GPL settings with a Gillier-Pantone doping ...

It is precisely these “self-adaptation” faculties that allow us to function without modifying the cartography or the electronics.
A GVI + a reactor powered only with water (no secondary air addition) should not disturb the richness for admission as long as the steam supply is downstream the various sensors (temperature if they exist and intake pressure).

Afterwards, one can always try to deplete the mixture by drawing in air through the Gillier Pantone. (I am afraid that the setting will become pointed without regulation as Christophe said).

[I Citro]

Hello Flytox

It is precisely these “self-adaptation” faculties that allow us to function without modifying the cartography or the electronics.
A GVI + a reactor powered only with water (no secondary air addition) should not disturb the richness for admission as long as the steam supply is downstream the various sensors (temperature if they exist and intake pressure).

Afterwards, one can always try to deplete the mixture by drawing in air through the Gillier Pantone. (I am afraid that the setting will become pointed without regulation as Christophe said).

In any case this project is no longer in the queue.

[yael]

Well we see that you follow it fun! I do not meet a lot of pantonist here in thailand although hydrogen kits begin to develop but has 400 euros all the same !!!
It seems that this is not really worth the effort to combine gillier-pantone and LPG.
I will still continue the assembly on the other vehicle: gasoline of 1400 cc a carbu, very simple (kind of engine of 4L) hoping that the settings will not be impossible.
all your advice are welcome.
The mecanos are changing the exhaust manifold, I planned to group the 4 exhaust in one of the output engine block and put the reactor in the middle (it should be warm and very close to the carbu) ... For the supply of air / water mixture of the reactor, I thought about a motorcycle carburetor 125 cc feeds gravity water from a tank and connect to the other fuel by cable (so by pressing the pedal I would act on both carbs simultaneously) to make it simple. ... how do you think I should regulate the richness of the mixture of small carbons, rich in water or little ???
photo attached the engine if needed ...
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 3xS1uJ.jpg

[Other]

Hello

The mecanos are changing the exhaust manifold, I planned to group the 4 exhaust in one of the output engine block and put the reactor in the middle (it should be warm and very close to the carbu) ... For the supply of air / water mixture of the reactor, I thought about a motorcycle carburetor 125 cc feeds gravity water from a tank and connect to the other fuel by cable (so by pressing the pedal I would act on both carbs simultaneously) to make it simple. ... how do you think I should regulate the richness of the mixture of small carbons, rich in water or little ???

The construction of the reactor does not pose any difficulty if it is approximately with dimensions (at least reactor stem air gap)
What will pose problem on a motor with throttle butterfly is where you get into the engine above or below the butterfly?
At the low low depression at low speed under high depression at low speed therefore the control is completely different.
If you take the option above the butterfly, forget your idea of ​​carburetor.
A bubbler or GV is preferable
For steam regulation this is not as delicate, makes the function a 100kmh it will still be quite functional at 70kmh and has 120 kmh ..
Before working on the wealth makes the sytéme so that it consumes a little less than 0,5 liter of water 100km view the cubic capacity, expect a small vane out of the bubbler to reduce and adjust the consumption of water .
For the propane engine I have no experience of doping with water on these engines ..

Andre