Bonjour à tous
Using this motorcycle (French and rare!) Much more often than my car (see Mercedes 300TD experimentation) I started a doping mount with water vapor.
Voxan Scrambler Engine Features:
72 ° V-twin engine of 996cc developing for this version 85CV (instead of 100CV for the other models).
Magnetti Marelli injection (IAW26V calculator), sensors: potentiometer on the throttle shaft, N engine revs, engine phase, water temperature, air temperature, barometric air pressure. So no measurement of the real air flow nor regulation by lambda probe.
Consumption without modification with optimum adjustment of the throttle potentiometer (150mV throttle fully closed).
stabilized speeds in 6ème (reduction of origin)
These measurements are close to those given by BMW for a R1150RS for example.
It is, I think, important to leave with values before modifications and on a sound basis, engine well adjusted etc.
Changes:
1 ° consumption measurement:
I used a fairly simple process, I count the cumulative injection time with logic circuits (CD4060 and 4011 pulse generator with a quartz, divider and a logical AND with the injector control), every X ms I send a pulse to a bike counter (SIGMA) that gives me Liters / Hour (instead of Km / H). So I have the totalization, the average, the maximum, and the instantaneous value.
Since 6 month I could compare with each full and the error is at most only a few 1 / 10L.
2 ° measure of wealth:
A preheated narrow-band type lambda probe (automotive recovery) is positioned on the rear cylinder tube.
A small montage based on LM3914 see: wealth controller
allows me to display the wealth on the dashboard with a leds baragraphe.
3 ° wealth setting:
I use a variable resistor (dimmable potentiometer on the dashboard) that modifies the value of the air pressure sensor and can allow me to deplete up to about 40% (high altitude simulation and low air pressure) .
4 ° steam generator:
It consists of 2 copper tube meters of 4mm inside diameter (6mm outside) wrapped around the exhaust tube of the rear cylinder. The temperature is very high (the copper changes color) but I noticed that some small drops of hot water were still passing.
There is an intermediate piece that allows drops of water not to pass easily (copper Z-piece).
The arrival of steam is in the air box so above the throttles, the depression is low but the steam comes under light pressure.
5 ° water injection:
No bubbler but a water injection with a minipump water coffee! Very small, good pressure (up to 3,2 bars).
Cost 25 € retail at a dealer in my city, we can find used in a machine HS.
This type of pump operates on impulse, with 220V alternating with 50 Hz we have one pulse every 10ms. But this pump can not run continuously with 50Hz (heating) it is intended for temporary use.
It is controlled here thanks to the consumption measurement circuit with a dividing stage (CD4060) and therefore proportional to the fuel injection. The pump is rewound in 12V. Attention for the command I use a MOSFET IRF840 because there is a strong surge of more than 400V (zener diode and capacitor of protection).
The command pulse is 10ms (at 5ms this is not enough). The pump does not heat because the pulses are spaced apart (it is not 50Hz) a few seconds between each pulse at idle.
At the moment I do not use a reactor in the exhaust I do not think it is useful for a gasoline engine and I admit that I do not want to drill my stainless steel exhaust tube whose price is certainly enough important.
I would like to get 10 to 20% as shown here: better-mileage simply by giving the engine water vapor.
Findings:
The first measures tell me that, without change of wealth, there is no drop in consumption.
Some pictures
Pump :
Pump disassembled (piston with spring valve and seals):
Pump (12V winding) with control circuit:
Steam generator:
Exhaust with cache:
Dashboard with info and settings:
Lambda probe added:
Circuit for counting consumption:
Michel
Moto 1000 VOXAN doping steam
Hello MichelM
Great job
For your coffee pump, I did not understand how you make it work with pulses of 10 ms. (nor even its operating principle).
A+
Great job
For your coffee pump, I did not understand how you make it work with pulses of 10 ms. (nor even its operating principle).
A+
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
Re: Moto 1000 VOXAN water vapor doping
MichelM wrote:The first measures tell me that, without change of wealth, there is no drop in consumption.
Well, that's often what happens with water doping, especially on gasoline engines according to "specialists"
Surely Christopher, Andrew or Captain will react ...
In any case, very good choice of motorcycle ... I'm not a biker, but your bike was made 13 km from home by a small box that is of quality and originality, but which is alive despite all his efforts ... it is rolled by Honda, Suzuki, BMW ...
Last edited by Remundo the 28 / 04 / 08, 10: 27, 1 edited once.
0 x
Hello
It's the same principle that I control wealth
on the intake pressure sensor I put a pot I vary the voltage B + pot. Once the engine warm, I drop it until I feel a lergere loss of power, then I increase slightly that gives 0,1volt it also works at 0,02v
With the experience I realized that too impoverish with the doping with water, one arrives at the best results
there is some wealth to maintain, poorer than 0,47volts, but not below 0,1volts (although the mass must be perfect for these reliable measurements)
Once the adjustment found is almost fixed value, it can vary slightly in winter, two diodes in series on B + of the pressure sensor gives the bone value.
The amount of steam is minimal on a gasoline engine
I tested many restrictions for, currently wet air before going to the reactor goes through a restriction of 1 / 8 is 3,2mm ..
It was long at the beginning of my assembly on the Chevrolet to have results
You can try to pass the steam on a felt pad before going to the engine it stops the drops of water,
In my case I enter the manifold depression (like an ERG) with a small duct ..
With water doping the engine supports more ahead
Andre
I use a variable resistor (dimmable potentiometer on the dashboard) that modifies the value of the air pressure sensor and can allow me to deplete up to about 40% (high altitude simulation and low air pressure) .
It's the same principle that I control wealth
on the intake pressure sensor I put a pot I vary the voltage B + pot. Once the engine warm, I drop it until I feel a lergere loss of power, then I increase slightly that gives 0,1volt it also works at 0,02v
With the experience I realized that too impoverish with the doping with water, one arrives at the best results
there is some wealth to maintain, poorer than 0,47volts, but not below 0,1volts (although the mass must be perfect for these reliable measurements)
Once the adjustment found is almost fixed value, it can vary slightly in winter, two diodes in series on B + of the pressure sensor gives the bone value.
The amount of steam is minimal on a gasoline engine
I tested many restrictions for, currently wet air before going to the reactor goes through a restriction of 1 / 8 is 3,2mm ..
It was long at the beginning of my assembly on the Chevrolet to have results
You can try to pass the steam on a felt pad before going to the engine it stops the drops of water,
In my case I enter the manifold depression (like an ERG) with a small duct ..
With water doping the engine supports more ahead
Andre
0 x
Hello
Thank you for your answers.
I added a photo of the disassembled pump, it is a small piston that is powered by an electric pulse regardless of the meaning on this model, some have a diode which forces them to feed in one direction, to check before use.
André what is the felt that you use, where can you find it?
I noticed also before water doping that the maximum economy is towards 0,1V (measurement lambda probe), the problem is that with the motorcycle the variations are very fast in normal circulation. At low load 2000 / 3000 rpm is too poor and then sometimes just or too rich. It would be necessary to resume the cartography to do well. The potentiometer is good but stabilized speed.
To change the ignition timing (and mapping) I would need the Direct Link software:Technoresearch Direct Link, I tried to copy the memory (Flash EEPROM) of a calculator HS but I can not find the injection table and other reading software (ECU map editor) do not work with this type of calculator ...
But I'm not there yet, if I can already reduce consumption and reduce pollution in steady speed over long distance with this system it will be good!
For Voxan the factory is in Auvergne in Issoire and although it is difficult they work a lot to improve these bikes and make them competitive, but for me they are already very good.
Some pictures :
The Scrambler (mine is the 83 N °)
Some new motorcycles at the factory a few days ago:
Precision: the engine is French as well as the frame and the design too.
Michel
Thank you for your answers.
I added a photo of the disassembled pump, it is a small piston that is powered by an electric pulse regardless of the meaning on this model, some have a diode which forces them to feed in one direction, to check before use.
André what is the felt that you use, where can you find it?
I noticed also before water doping that the maximum economy is towards 0,1V (measurement lambda probe), the problem is that with the motorcycle the variations are very fast in normal circulation. At low load 2000 / 3000 rpm is too poor and then sometimes just or too rich. It would be necessary to resume the cartography to do well. The potentiometer is good but stabilized speed.
To change the ignition timing (and mapping) I would need the Direct Link software:Technoresearch Direct Link, I tried to copy the memory (Flash EEPROM) of a calculator HS but I can not find the injection table and other reading software (ECU map editor) do not work with this type of calculator ...
But I'm not there yet, if I can already reduce consumption and reduce pollution in steady speed over long distance with this system it will be good!
For Voxan the factory is in Auvergne in Issoire and although it is difficult they work a lot to improve these bikes and make them competitive, but for me they are already very good.
Some pictures :
The Scrambler (mine is the 83 N °)
Some new motorcycles at the factory a few days ago:
Precision: the engine is French as well as the frame and the design too.
Michel
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Hey Michelm, you would not work at Voxan by chance?
I do not have much to add given the "professionalism" of your editing, approach and various reflections except that the water injection will allow you to work durably in lean mixture reducing the risk of destruction of the engine... now as you say: it's going to be nice to adjust the richness "in variable speed" unless you reprogram everything and there you need an engine lab ... but you may have access to it?
In any case it would be nice if your experience gives Voxan ideas ... if you know what I mean ...
Congratulations again!
I do not have much to add given the "professionalism" of your editing, approach and various reflections except that the water injection will allow you to work durably in lean mixture reducing the risk of destruction of the engine... now as you say: it's going to be nice to adjust the richness "in variable speed" unless you reprogram everything and there you need an engine lab ... but you may have access to it?
In any case it would be nice if your experience gives Voxan ideas ... if you know what I mean ...
Congratulations again!
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Hello Christophe and Denis, thank you for your encouragement.
No, I do not work at Voxan but I was able to visit there last week. They have a lot of work with the new models to come, I also understood with them that it is not easy to modify a product industrially and have it approved ...
If I get something I will obviously share with them the details.
I also believe that water doping must be able to run the gasoline engine in a lean mixture without reaching harmful temperatures.
Michel
No, I do not work at Voxan but I was able to visit there last week. They have a lot of work with the new models to come, I also understood with them that it is not easy to modify a product industrially and have it approved ...
If I get something I will obviously share with them the details.
I also believe that water doping must be able to run the gasoline engine in a lean mixture without reaching harmful temperatures.
Michel
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I even think that, as the combustion / flame temperatures are higher (except on a petrol engine), the potential for water doping is greater on this type of engine....remains to solve the painful problem of the regulation / cartography on an essence ...
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