Gillier pantone: technical and legal issue

[Begood42]

Hello everyone,

First of all thank you for this forum very interesting. I hope not to be mistaken of place to post my message otherwise I apologize in advance but it is my first post on this site.
I am currently in technical-commercial license by alternation (between the IUT of Roanne and a company selling agricultural equipment in Feurs in the Loire) As part of my training I must carry out a project in my company. My boss therefore asked me to look for ways to diversify his business. Passing from site to site I came across your forum very complete which really gave me the desire to push my boss to do tests and, if they are conclusive, to get started in its marketing.

However, I still have a long way to go to convince him. For this he asked me to answer many questions that I return to you. Of course I will seek answers from my side but I hope that you can at least provide me with leads to answer them. Here are my questions:

- Is there any rules for marketing? (patent, etc.)
-Is this a problem with homologation or insurance if we install such a system on our tractors?
-How long does it take to build a system identical to that mounted by Camel1 on the 205?
- what materials do we need to make it? (trimmer, grinder, etc.)
-Is the system effective on recent tractors? (this question has already been asked if I remember correctly but I have not seen any assembly on recent vehicles so the gain has it always remained only theoretical or has it been put into practice?)
-Is it possible to size the different parts (reactor and GV), to have an idea of ​​them or is it all done by trial and error?
- has anyone from the Loire already mounted this system or a nearby system on a tractor? (recent or old)
-Is there a real gain in consumption while keeping an identical torque and power or is its last 2 variables decreasing or better increasing?

It seems to me that I have no other questions (there are already quite a few lol). Thank you in advance for your answers (even if they are only possible answers I also take lol). Aware of the importance of the life of a forum I would of course keep you informed of the progress of the project (hope that my boss gives me the green light for the experiments, which is far from being won). Otherwise father being interested in this system but lacking time I will try may be an assembly on old tractor during my vacations (which are still your far from the fact that I am in alternation therefore employee and that for less than a year)

PS: this site was recommended to me by my former professor of thermodynamics (professor sunflower on forum) which I thank.

[Begood42]

I forgot one more question (and yes one more to cultivate an uncultivated lol)

How much does it cost to supply the manufacturing of this style of system, knowing that as a company we are going to work with new parts, and what type of materials should be used (stainless steel, steel, etc.)

Here is hoping that I have no other question I wish you a good day

[Begood42]

nobody has answers?
tanpi i will keep looking for my rating

[Chatham]

Sorry, but I'm afraid that this type of assembly is neither suitable for modern engines (risk of breakage), nor does it allow to maintain the original performance, all the tests done seriously showed a loss of power and torque (bench measurements), moreover regulation is extremely difficult to obtain which explains its non-use by manufacturers ...
The montages have never passed the stage of happy experimental and random tinkering ... with sometimes apparently successes, but systematically affirmations without proofs and not reproducible ...

[Begood42]

Hello,
Do you have any example of engine breakage on recent engines and the cause of those? (I've always been told that the diesel engine worked better with a percentage of water in the mixture)
do you have any link to serious tests because all those that i found did not reveal anything or was incomplete
thank you for your answer, I will maybe do a test in private before testing it in the box where I work

[Chatham]

I have no example of breakage because nobody is crazy enough to tinker with a new engine at 10 € the end (see much more ...), but working in the business, I can assure you that the operating tolerances of modern engines do not allow many deviations ...

Only aquazole or EEG (emulsion with 13% water + emulsifier) ​​has produced interesting results from a pollution point of view (greatly reduces NOx and particulate emissions), but it is only used on old diesels , especially old buses ... Diesel consumption is equivalent (almost zero gain), total consumption increasing by 10% ... We can therefore imagine that the Gillone pantone system has ~ the same effects with a principle of different water insertion ...

[Begood42]

This is what I saw on car engines. Namely almost identical consumption and just a drop in pollution.
The difference is that the I will only work on tractor engines which work more often (see almost all the time) at constant speed and under load which gives visibly better results.

Not being an engine specialist (just a few hours of study during my DUT ) I do not understand how the injection of water vapor into the air intake circuit could damage the engine, so if you can give me a quick explanation, the above will be nice (I will go to bed less stupid )

[Christophe]

because nobody is crazy enough to tinker with a new engine at 10 € the end (see much more ...)

Uh and that's calf soft: https://www.econologie.com/forums/vehicules- ... t5080.html ?

Only aquazole or EEG (emulsion with 13% water + emulsifier) ​​has produced interesting results from a pollution point of view (greatly reduces NOx and particulate emissions), but it is only used on old diesels , especially the old buses ...Diesel consumption is equivalent (almost zero gain), total consumption increasing by 10%... We can therefore imagine that the Gillier pantone system has ~ the same effects with a different water insertion principle ...

I often appreciate your technical interventions but there you really tell anything ... Wouldn't it be your "bosses" who got you stuffed by chance?

https://www.econologie.com/par-elf-l-aqu ... es-72.html
http://www.industrie.gouv.fr/energie/pe ... e_aqua.htm

Begood many answers to your questions are already on the forum or the site, please use the internal search engine: https://www.econologie.com/forums/search.php

[Chatham]

Uh and that's calf soft: https://www.econologie.com/forums/vehicules- ... t5080.html ?


I often appreciate your technical interventions but there you really tell anything ... Wouldn't it be your "bosses" who got you stuffed by chance?

For the calf slack it is anything, unverified sales pitch, and for aquazole engines it is the statistics on the entire fleet of RATP buses = 2% gain in diesel consumption: this is almost negligible ... on the other hand, a big improvement in pollution ...

[Begood42]

In fact my most important question is whether or not there is the possibility of marketing this water doping system? Because I have seen a lot of individuals who do it but from a professional point of view it all depends on which site we are looking at. One will say that there is no need for a license and the other if d or my inquiry.
for the rest I have in particular to look at the assembly of the 205 and the merco which make me say that it does not require enormous material has by a good station to be welded and not to have two left hands .
Now remains only to have the answer from the headquarters of our brand to know how to approve such a system and to convince the boss but the c not won neither for one nor the other