forums energies: society, ecology and clean technologies

Hi everybody,

I'm going back to doing pantone on a diesel bmw tds (M51 engine (525 - 325 tds, 6 cylinders, 1 injectors piloted)), which I have not done since 2009 wholesale.

So I want to get up to speed and before I get into the adaptation on this engine and I noticed that now some coupled the venturi system with the pantone, does it improve efficiency according to you?

On the other hand, not having used this system in the long term, I have often wondered if the addition of this unstable hydrogen gas (this is how Kevin, a person well known in this field) me had "trained" (at the time and at his level of knowledge at the time)
(Unstable because when you put this gas in the bottle, it recondenses and becomes water, according to his words).

in short if the addition of this hydrogen gas, which improves the explosion (or auto ignition if you prefer) if I can say, did not use the diesel engine too much.
Of course there is depreciation if already we reduce the level of pollution (imbrulé) and if we make a substantial saving or partial (3 15% on average we say, but there certainly more precise returns) c is already not bad because it is also (and above all) a political and ecological act (since normally it is forbidden (existing jurisprudence? - grenelle of the environment - cop 21 - clean city, recycling, in short) ). Compared to an internal combustion engine.

Indeed, the use of the injection of hydro gas makes me think more of the gasifier, LPG, ethanol etc. ... as a substitute for gasoline or super.

I am equipped (TIG), I know the diagram, I have a little experience and a certain familiarization, I even organized (thanks to Kévin, friends and a certain "socio-economic" carelessness) a conference on the system pantone (in 2007) as well as a complete installation and (+ a few days for the boldest) adaptation on 5-6 cars (2Cv, golf II with golf III TD engine - renault 19 D, clio phase 1 gasoline and I forget a few others)
Then after the group of people split, life went on and I turned to the use of recycled oil (HVP - HVB :: golf II D or TD) and I moved .... (I wanted couple the two systems).

Now I'm going back to it, I'm going to prepare a few bits of information upstream and I'm taking all the advice :-)

Sorry to have been a bit long.

Good luck to all and a big thank you to the founder of the site (Marc Christophe I think) and all the others and participants and users of the site.

One last thing: Retrofit or vapocracking is for me used for some years in recent diesel engines with some slight differences on the goals (mainly pollution), by the car manufacturers (FAP engines for example) and blue motion on the heavy trucks .
What now, in my opinion, the pantone and sharp system, HHO etc., makes the facts mildly funny.

So "foutag **** mouth if I may say so (sorry for the popular expression).

Hello jrneco, welcome.

jrneco wrote:So I want to get up to speed and before I get into the adaptation on this engine and I noticed that now some coupled the venturi system with the pantone, does it improve efficiency according to you?

To "stimulate" the aspiration of gases / vapors etc ... it is a good solution.

On the other hand, not having used this system in the long term, I have often wondered if the addition of this unstable hydrogen gas (this is how Kevin, a person well known in this field) me had "trained" (at the time and at his level of knowledge at the time)

Hydrogen ignites very easily, but is no more unstable than anything else. It is rather the "conditions" / installations in its engine environment which must have been unstable.

(Unstable because when you put this gas in the bottle, it recondenses and becomes water, according to his words).

No, hydrogen only condenses at very, very low temperatures, rather it must be the water vapor contained in the gases that has condensed in your bottle.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrog%C3%A8ne_liquide

The liquid hydrogen is the dihydrogen cooled below its dew point, namely 20,28 K1 (-252,87 ° C) at atmospheric pressure (101 325 Pa).

in short if the addition of this hydrogen gas, which improves the explosion (or auto ignition if you prefer) if I can say, did not use the diesel engine too much.

The longevity depends on the realization and development of the modified engine. If you do anything you can expect the worst. Finally, I have not yet found credible Internet users describing major longevity problems directly related to the use of hydrogen.

I am equipped (TIG), I know the diagram, I have a little experience and a certain familiarization, I even organized (thanks to Kévin, friends and a certain "socio-economic" carelessness) a conference on the system pantone (in 2007) as well as a complete installation and (+ a few days for the boldest) adaptation on 5-6 cars (2Cv, golf II with golf III TD engine - renault 19 D, clio phase 1 gasoline and I forget a few others)

Are you talking about "pure" Pantone or Gillier Pantone?
You will be able to document, with photographs raised of conso etc ...

.... and I turned to the use of recycled oil (HVP - HVB :: golf II D or TD) and I moved .... ( I wanted to couple the two systems ).

Chui sure that it is a good technical way, to decarbonize, to limit soot and NOx .... "simply" on the same mill ....

Now I'm going back to it, I'm going to prepare a few bits of information upstream and I'm taking all the advice :-)

We will be happy to try to help you.

A+

Super and thank you very much Flytox for the speed and clarity of your answers, you save me precious time and it encourages me to always turn to more rational and scientific explanations!

From memory the system on which I was formed would be the Gillier Pantone system (actually by thinking we did not reuse a part of the imbrulé gases for the reinjected in the circuit (correct me if I am wrong, I would live less stupid please), That's why it was called (I was in the high Alps, pantone G + I guess gillier, short.

For the returns, photos and docs it will be necessary that I redo archeology in the data (I know it's a pity to lose this kind of experience feedback), but I can find some photos of montages apparently on my old website, I may have to make a server lamp to recover data and imgs (the names of articles and images are obscure), I would stick to the juice. (In fact I just found it but I have to make order and make sense).

I have kept qq diagrams, single-reactors, bi-reactors, tri-reactors, the vapo, the drip, in short qq basic elements but that seems to me could not bring much, given the maturity of the projects created in this forum and the way you answered me There's the endanche ché chur!

All I have for me is the tools, my car and the fact that I did it, now I doubt that there will be work and adventure. I do not leave zero, but ... fortunately I have mechanic friends, real, that I try to convert, hehe ....

I hope I have not been too disappointed by my answers, but I come back in the game, thank you for the encouragement!

Yep :-)

ps: I would try to be more precise and as my memory resurfaced ;-)

jrneco wrote:From memory the system on which I was formed would be the Gillier Pantone system (actually by thinking we did not reuse a part of the imbrulé gases for the reinjected in the circuit (correct me if I am wrong, I would live less stupid please), That's why it was called (I was in the high Alps, pantone G + I guess gillier, short.

To be precise, the Gillier Pantone works with water in form (liquid / vapor / mist) and air and / or exhaust gases all in various proportions.
The "pure" Pantone makes vapo_craquing with any fuel, often instead of the carburetor. Much more suitable for fixed speed engines than for variable speed on-vehicle engines.

I have kept some schematics, single jet engines, bi-reactors, tri-reactors, the vapo, the drip, in short qq basic elements but which seems to me might not bring much, given the maturity of the projects created in this forum and the way you answered me There's the endanche ché chur!

Experimenters often have ideas, from "anything" to "not so new", including "playable" or "great", sometimes as silly as they are grainy. . The principle or the implementation can be more or less "difficult", successful, very well thought out .... and even if it is complete, you can get an experience, deepen your knowledge on the subject, and somewhere, advance the schimblick for everyone.

A+

Hi everyone ...

I did not forget my post, very busy (moving), and did not have time to make my srv web lamp to reuse my articles concerning the pantone assemblies that I had alluded to, I was however able to them find and fail to use them correctly, by way of waiting I will put some of them. Basically it is about a training course we assembly gillier pantone on qq vehicles that I had organized with friends and the sieur Kévin ... there is especially the assembly of the deuche, but on a photo we will recognize qq other models vehicles in the process of "pantonization" here are some while I find the others (I hope). thanks for your understanding.

ps: I would live (if I am allowed) this post for a certain period, it will evolve slowly but surely. I dont engage.
ps2: pictures in the mess, sorry.
ps3: sorry, not having an account "website images" I can not put the photos on each workstation in packs of 5 ...

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