Injecting current on the contract without network?

[Christophe]

Everything is in the title.

Hypothetical examples

a) I have a small cogeneration autoconstruct because I do not have the budget to do this by a pro (20 000 € for 5kW ... no thanks ...).

I want to reinject the current produced but not consumed via an inverter.

I know it's not too profitable per kWh but the initial investment is divided by 4 to 5.

So I would like to know if it will disturb someone I inject on the network without anyone knowing it? From a technical and legal point of view?

b) I have a small 300W wind turbine bought 1000 € we do not want to use storage batteries, so we plug it directly into a PV inverter connected to the network.

[elephant]

For Belgium, or for France?

[Christophe]

Well to do, the 2 my general!

[Forhorse]

In France, from a legal point of view, if you do not have a repurchase agreement then you have no right to do it.
If you do it anyway, and because of you an agent comes to be accidental because your installation reinjected during a power outage, so hello confuses even if your equipment is consistent (if you go back up you naturally)

Now from a more practical point of view, if you have a mechanical meter and you use a network UPS planned for, no problem to do so.
With an electronic counter it is hardly lost because they are anyway not expected to count. In this case, apart from directly consuming what you produce, it's all good for EDF.
In Belgium it must not be very different

[coucou789456]

re

... your installation reinjected during a power outage ...

actually, not surprisingly that an 1 or 2 or 3 Kw inverter can handle the load that it will result from a network outage as other consumers will try to see why they no longer have their favorite juice, or by the devices in standby or fridge, etc ... remained connected in the neighborhood.
it would seem, therefore, if the inverter is approved, that it only works if it detects the mains presence, exclusively.

With an electronic counter it is hardly lost because they are anyway not expected to count

worse, because the measurement of consumption is not done mechanically, it must be measured continuously, as in a clamp meter. therefore possible if the option in the counter is not expected to count and not count when the system reinjects the surplus in the network. system to test before seeing its bill increase.

jeff

[Christophe]

In France, from a legal point of view, if you do not have a repurchase agreement then you have no right to do it.
If you do it anyway, and because of you an agent comes to be accidental because your installation reinjected during a power outage, so hello confuses even if your equipment is consistent (if you go back up you naturally)

It's a good argument. But what about all PV installations during a maintenance? They automatically disconnect?

[elephant]

In the Walloon Region, the buyback is "automatic", but not necessarily the allocation of green certificates which are the most profitable part of the operation. It seems to me that it is quite possible, if the installation is compliant (i.e. duly certified by an approved body and if it shuts off automatically in the event of a network failure), with the agreement of the network manager. distribution, to re-inject current, even if you are using a Wonder battery dumper.

More:
you will not be entitled to green certificates (only wind and PV)
you will be limited to your consumption, because you are not an "industrial"

So, even if you count backwards goes further than your consumption, you will not be credited with a kopeck.

So it would be better to manage your production with the help of loaders or something and possibly change your consumption (cooking with electricity instead of gas, electric boiler instead of fuel, etc ...)

It is quite obvious that, for such powers, connecting "in stoummelinckx" would be quickly detected.

[Regismu]

Good evening everyone

The inverter standardized according to the VDE 0126 standard stops producing in case of absence of the network .. it is studied for

[chatelot16]

the problem of security in case of network failure is very simple for anyone who knows how works a UPS

the inverter to make the 220v standalone has a sinusoidal generator at 50 hz that drives the power system to make 50hz

the inverter to inject in the network is different: it is the instantaneous tension of the network which determines the current sent: when the tension is positive it sends a positive current, when the tension is negative it sends a negative current, and if the voltage is zero it sends a zero current

this kind of inverter is unable to operate without networks, so the security problem does not arise

alas I do not know any inverter with dual control system, can work either in injection network or generator 50hz autonomous

an inverter to inject into the network is much simpler than a standalone sinusoidal inverter

the autonomous inverter must make a nice sinusoid so as not to degrade the output of what is fed

an inverter to inject a weak power into the network can send a completely dented current: it will not disturb the nuclear alternator already accustomed to supply the dented current of all the bizare electronic charges

this is something else for a few hectares of photovoltaic: the power being stronger it is essential that the current injected is sinusoidal, otherwise the network will be disturbed: hence the precise standards imposed by the edf

[elephant]

Christopher said:

But what about all PV installations during a maintenance? They automatically disconnect

I have said it many times already: on a regulatory inverter, as soon as the sector (network) disappears, it shuts down. This is why a circuit breaker is placed between the inverter and the network. Some inverters have a "security handle" (even better: the installer removes it to prevent injection before reception by the OA, for example)

Once the inverter stops, there is still downstream voltage, but more current, so you can disconnect the plugs without causing an arc.

In addition, if you cut your main breaker, there is no tension, you can work safely on the installation of the house.