Small heat pump water-water solar buffer falls?

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Christophe
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Small heat pump water-water solar buffer falls?




by Christophe » 21/08/09, 16:02

C moa relaunched the idea of ​​combining PAC and solar buffer to increase the buffering capacity and the idea tickles me more and more. (see this topic https://www.econologie.com/forums/cop-d-un-s ... t8220.html ) so I inquire to see if it would be interesting for Primary Energy rather than burning 2 or 3 wood stere per annum on the ECS not to put a small heat pump in order to exploit the currently unworkable solar energy in our solar buffer because below 35 ° C, the water is no longer expoitable for the ECS.

In short, ideally I would need a water-water heat pump in "temperature reading" which would take joules between, say 20 and 35 °, and which would come out of 45-60 ° C to heat a DHW tank (for the moment supplied with wood) ... let's say with a hot power of 2 to 3 kW ...

Question if it exists in these ranges of T °: what are the most power available? Maloche you would manufacturers that I zieute a little? Thank you.
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by Christophe » 21/08/09, 20:01

I did some research ... I think it is badly barred, the smaller water-water cap cost 10 12 000 ... Image

I keep searching...
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by swift2540 » 25/08/09, 18:41

Christophe,
Have you seen this
http://www.elcobelgium.be/fr/produits/energies-renouvelables
It is a pac specially designed for ecs : Idea:
I do not know the product or the prices but there is a technical pdf on the page.
Up to you
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by Christophe » 25/08/09, 18:46

Oh no I did not find that! You think about MULTIAQUA
Water / water heat pumps, Power 3,8 kW I presume?

Oh yes it could stick ... to see the prices: http://www.elcobelgium.be/webfm_send/38

Oh great, I just saw!

This is exactly what I would need in terms of power (1.1 electric, 3.8 thermal) ... I see if for "the rest" it can stick!

A priori yes: mini cold T ° = 10 ° C ... then with 10 to 30 ° C in "cold" source it should boost well !!

I'd have to do the long-run profitability calculation to see if it's worth it!

Thank you anyway! You have found the rare pearl! Image
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by elephant » 25/08/09, 19:10

I was going to refer you to the ideas of José Maria de Laminne, company Econo de Gembloux, but the company went bankrupt in November 2008.

De Laminne's theory is that it stored energy in the ground, under the house, at around 15 ° C, and recovered it with a heat pump with good efficiency. There is a way to recover the cached site by searching for "econo gembloux solar heat pump" on google
I am too bland to redo the search.
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by Christophe » 25/08/09, 19:15

Ah, you have to take their DHW accumulator ... because the "hot" exchanger is apparently in the open!

Ah it m'embette me because I bought a balloon ECS double exchanger there is 2 years ... to see if I can cut and solder a flange on the latter ... it is possible (it's a balloon of 30 years big enough).
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by Christophe » 25/08/09, 19:17

elephant wrote:I was going to refer you to the ideas of José Maria de Laminne, company Econo de Gembloux, but the company went bankrupt in November 2008.


Ah thin, I had met at several shows in Belgium ...
It seemed to me that they made beautiful original montages ...

Can be a little too beautiful precisely?

Well I think that with the CAP ELCO 3.8 kW ca will be able to do ... to see the investment price (2000 € seems to me a maximum acceptable ...).

I want to call them tomorrow: they have an agency in Liege.
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by Christophe » 25/08/09, 22:16

After reflection I think I should rather leave on the smaller model in water-water Aquatop which is 1.2 kW absorbed, 5.4kW thermal model T05C this doc http://www.elcobelgium.be/webfm_send/23

This heat pump has a hydraulic connection hot side, not just a heat exchanger like that for the ECS, and if necessary, it will use the heat for something else if needed ... good must see the prices ...

On the other hand, it was noted: T ° cold source -8 ° C to + 20 ° C

To see to what extent it can exceed 20 ° C in a "cold" source: because we will be closer to 30 ° C than 20 ° C ... with peaks at 35 ° C ... finally who can the most can the least not? : Cheesy:

Moreover it is reversible which can be an advantage in our case. Indeed; as we have heated floors, they could eventually become cooler and put a few more watts in the solar buffer? To see ... because the ca will begin to make gas plant ... (what is it already? :D)

Tomorrow I try to call, hoping that the guy opposite understands our "config", otherwise I will invite him on forums :D : Cheesy:

ps: level perf the T05C with a cold source at 10 ° and an output at 35 ° C at a COP of 5.9! Waw ... and between 20 ° cold source and 45 ° C output is the same you think?
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by Christophe » 25/08/09, 22:29

Ah that I'm stupid, I would have done better to search on econo rather than on google, I would (re) found this document of dimplex which has a water glycol-water model that could also be suitable for my case, SI 5CS : https://www.econologie.com/la-technologi ... -3389.html
It is really a very complete doc: not far from being a course for heating engineer I think!

It can rise to + 25 ° C on the "cold source" side (COP of 7.5 to 35 ° C on the hot side!). Afterwards, the curves stop, surely because it no longer corresponds to a reality but I think that the refrigerator machine can get hotter ... to be confirmed!

Here is another doc on this dimplex range: https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... uELleO.pdf
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by MAMO » 25/08/09, 22:45

Hello!

No, above 25 °, the refrigerant gas will have trouble evaporating, or not at all!

The compressor risks a blow of liquid, : Cry:

The bp will be as high as the compressor will not be able to cool ...

@ + Nicolas.
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