Comparative yield production wind and solar energy

[Christophe]

Following a question quite relevant on a subject about wind turbines, I create this topic to discuss a comparative Solar-Wind, here is the beginning of answer:

Does anyone have significant figures in terms of efficiency between solar and wind?

Interesting question, I think you talk about solar photovoltaic?

It is quite difficult to compare performance in the technological sense of the term because the energy sources are too far away. A calculation of financial profitability would be more interesting but in either case, it depends on the local political will to buy energy. If we compare its 2 technology to fossil fuels, with current prices, they are just NEVER profitable on their life time .... What is not the case of solar thermal for example ...

Otherwise at the gross yield level, a wind turbine turns 1 / 5 from time to year at its nominal power. A photovoltaic panel probably much more but it has a yield of 15% while the wind turbine can have a yield of 60%. With the solar and wind potential maps, it is therefore quite easy to find the average annual yield.

Example with solar for France:
https://www.econologie.com/carte-de-fran ... -3137.html



It is then enough to multiply these data by the installed surface and by 0,15 (at best) to have the annual production ...

.. But with the wind is a little more delicate because there is a transformation of energy that depends bcp installed hardware. It is also more difficult to obtain easily exploitable maps, here are 2 (source ADEME):





Problem on the 2ieme there is an uncertainty on the units ... W / m² at best? On average over the year? Wind or recoverable?

[elephant]

Just last night, in front of an excellent bottle of wine, with a friend electrician was asked a complementary question:

for 25000 euros invested, what produces the most KWh / year?
solar photovoltaic, solar thermal, or a wind turbine?

(information that will be corrected by a second question: what has the best storage performance: a battery or a hot water tank?)

[tchobec]

Hi elephant,

I hope that since 2007, you had answers to your questions by another way because here it seems hollow

The questions are relevant but first of all you need to know in which region you want to make this comparison. The graphics of the previous message clearly indicate the solar and wind fields in the metropolitan area.

We must first make an inter-wind comparison because all do not have the same results for a given nominal power, a given average speed and a given price.

And finally, it is necessary to know which type of photovoltaic modules you wish to use (monocrystalline, polycrystalline, etc ...). Each having its advantages and disadvantages.

As for the second question, it would seem to be in relation to a heating system, no
In this case it depends on the region (also) and the possibilities of development of the house because it takes a certain place. The comparison is already done between several systems using the same principle:
- Storage by high capacity tank (> = 1000L) is advantageous in a region that is regularly sunny, by necessarily hot, on condition that a floor heating system is installed. Much more efficient than heating with wall radiators, also using solar energy via this balloon. Which are necessarily less expensive to invest than an electrical storage system (cost of batteries).

- Storage by battery can be interesting provided you are isolated from the power grid, otherwise no interest because of the amount of investment in batteries.
But it will always be less interesting than a solar thermal system for a given sunshine, however requiring less space for installation. Again there must be a comparison between the use of wall heaters or electric floor heating, the latter being more efficient.

[Hasardine]

To be honest, this post there depresses me a little !!
In urban areas in Alsace, none of these solutions 2 seems good! me who finally got from my owner the change of my balloon for a better insulated material with connection to the electricity! (because he was all fuel!)

[Remundo]

Hi Hasardine,

Now you're "all nuclear"

I'm barely exaggerating (80%)

For heating, that's the optimal.

Sorry, no industrial production from Stirling yet

Finally, heat pumps have finally developed ...

[Hasardine]

no no I'm always fuel!

I still intend to finish my wind, do not imagine that I'll stop there!

I do not get discouraged so easily, you know, but before with a syltème tout fuel, not too much way to involve my wind!

[Remundo]

What I would advise you ...

Since you already have a fuel installation, it is better not to touch it.

To make heat with your wind turbine, you have 3 options:

n ° 1: direct coupling on resistors: for 100 W wind, 100 W heat.

n ° 2: coupling of the wind turbine on the electricity grid (EDF resale at windfarm rate), and at the same time, you're racking up the energy-based tariff for an electric heater.
no advantage from the point of view energy 100 wind turbine W for 100 W heats, but financial benefit (to be amortized over several years ...)

n ° 3: coupling of the wind turbine on the electricity grid (resale EDF at windfarm rate), and at the same time, you withdraw at the energy base rate for an air / air or air / ground heat pump (plan earthworks or drilling ...)
advantage from the point of view energy 100 W wind turbines for 300 W heater (400 W if air / ground),
and financial benefit (to be amortized over several years ...)

Obviously, the 1 solution is the simplest, but the least efficient. The most expensive 3, but the most optimal.

In any case, the thermostat of your fuel system will trigger less often since you inject an "external" (additional) heater into the home.

Do not throw yourself headlong, must calculate well its cost and its cost

@+

[Hasardine]

in my case, being a tenant, and not being sure that my lease is renewed in 3 years (the girls of my landlord being major at that date!) I do not see myself subscribe a resale contract of the electricity with EDF!
On the other hand, your solution # 1 Remundo, is the one I thought about. It is true that it is the least profitable, but for now the construction of wind energy is more of a leisure than anything else, to tell the truth, I have shortcomings in physics (my studies are far away , and I have not practiced for more than 15 years, recovering is very difficult!).

What I fear, however, is that the region in which I find myself is not really suitable for the wind turbine, but not too much for the solar!

And I was surprised to see these cards, because close to home, many solar fields were installed! (finally German side of the border!)

[Elec]

Compare 2 installations of 5 kW, one wind turbine, the other PV:

CF (capacity factor) Micro-Wind: 30% (average)
CF PV: Less than 20%

At equal installed power, more electricity is produced with the micro-wind than with the PV; 50% more.

Micro-wind: 5 x 8760 x 0.3 = 13140 kWh
PV: 5 x 8760 x 0.2 = 8760 kWh

And in terms of cost, the PV installed Watt is much more expensive than the wind Watt (factor 3 between the two).

It is lamentable and unfair that there are no preferential buyback rates per kWh micro-wind in France, while this is the case for the PV (50 eurocents in case of integration in the building!).
So we have a completely distorted market.

But it is true that if the wind had a feed-in tariff of the same level as that of the kWh PV (or even only 1 / 3 thereof!), Nuclear power would be seriously threatened ... We have here a obvious explanation of this hostility to the wind.

In France, wind power is considered a "foreign" threat (Danish, German, etc.). I find that completely silly.

Micro-wind, equip itself:

MSM Electric website: http://www.msmelectric.com

France Aeolian site: www.france-eoliennes.com/

Joliet website: www.joliet-europe.com

Weole Energy website: www.weole-energy.com/

Wind Action Site: www.action-eolienne.com/

Direct Energie website: www.direct-energie.com/



The formula in my opinion the most relevant, for simple statistical reasons at aeolian and solar fields:
Install 3,5 kW micro-turbine + 1,5 kW PV

[Remundo]

And yes Elec, but it's been a long time since there is any sense in France.

Each home should have a small PV / wind / CHP / heat pump mix (at least 2 among the 4) that would cost little to build, and would in any case be amortized in less than 10 years.

But some lobbies, though very concerned with the good of Humanity and Nature in the examination of their advertisements, would live less well, that's for sure.