French microhydraulics in danger! Nuclear lobby and FNE

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79364
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11060

French microhydraulics in danger! Nuclear lobby and FNE




by Christophe » 19/06/11, 11:34

Microhydraulics is the renewable electric energy that probably has the best potential for re-development (when we see the number of mills stopped here or there for decades ...) in France.

The energy potential is very important but it does not please everyone, then, as in other cases, we invent false problems and update standards to plague small producers ... that disturb the profits of the big ...

Analyzes below (it annoyed me business !!) ...

Hydraulic mills and micro-power plants: polluters or energy of the future?

From Chloé COUPEAU (AFP) - 1 day ago

CAEN - Renewable Energy Sources or Barriers to Clearing Rivers? Power mills and micro-power plants are hotly debated, while new standards to protect waterways increase production costs.

"We are asked to invest 88.000 euros for a figure of 22.000 euros to bring us up to standards in 2012. This will lead us to stop production", assures Etienne Gilbert, co-owner of the micro-power plant of Brouains, in the Channel.

“Unfortunately, all small producers are in the same situation,” he regrets. Determined to defend what he sees as "a resource of the future", he invited the public to visit his plant on Saturday for the National Windmill Days. A "call of June 18", according to this employee of a large bank.

A few kilometers from Brouains, Guérin de Tessy-sur-Vire operates four micro-power plants on the Vire. But a recent prefectural order requires him to shoot four months a year instead of eight while waiting for an upgrade to standards.

"We are ready to invest, but we need time. Companies must be able to find their way financially", underlines Christophe Marion, director of development of the company.

"It is the cheapest renewable energy. Let's not waste France's potential", pleads Anne Penalba, president of France hydroelectricity, calling for a reasonable application of the European directive requiring the return to quality water before 2015.

France is one of the most endowed European countries in "small hydro". It has 1.700 micro-power stations, of which 200 to 300 belong to EDF. The production represents the equivalent of two nuclear reactors, according to Anne Penalba.

The Fédération des moulins de France lists its mills 30.000 and ensures that many more owners want to produce their electricity for their own consumption.

A June 2009 convention initiated by the Ministry of Energy also pleads for "the development" of hydroelectricity "in line with the restoration of the" aquatic environment.

But for the association France Nature Environment (FNE), dams and ecology are antinomic.

According to FNE, the dams of the mills and micro-power plants prevent the migration of fish and modify the height of the water, thus suffocating the vegetation which reduces agricultural pollutants. They also disturb the "spawning grounds", where the fish reproduce.

"On the Vire, with seven plants over a few tens of kilometers, we have 200 salmon coming back up, whereas we should have 2.000. This is an indicator of pollution", denounces Christian Allain de Manche Nature, member of the FNE network .

The "ecological delinquency" is not worth the energy candle, according to this detractor of the "lobbying of hydro-electricians".

"Downstream of the Vire, the seven micro-power stations, particularly mediocre, have an installed capacity of 1,3 megawatt in total. A wind turbine is 2,5 megawatt", he says.

The Grenelle Environment Forum set a target for reducing the number of dams in France, while the country counts a work every four to five km of watercourse, according to Bernard Rousseau, administrator of FNE.

In Bretteville-sur-Laize, near Caen, Jean Morin, 80 years, does not understand what is criticized mills. This plumber retired electrician says to heat since 20 years his house and his swimming pool thanks to his mill.

According to him, "it was with the arrival of fertilizers, after the war, that the number of fish fell, not because of the mills". "There were 14 over 10 kilometers in the past, there are almost half as many" today, he points out.


Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 2e93ae.231

In bulk, it pissed me a little:

- If 1700 micro-plants in place equivalent to 2 nuclear reactors then one can imagine, at equivalent average power, that 30 000 potential mills to be put back into service would equate to 30 000 / 1700 * 2 = 35 Nuclear Reactors... Who said that nuclear power was essential in France and that wind turbines would not be enough to replace it?

Edit: figure largely overvalued, the current development potential would be only from 1 to 2 GW is 1 to 2 reactors. See below.

- Accept the argument of blocking fish is to accept that the diversity of rivers was much worse when France moulait (grind imperfect, I had to check, never used) its flours to hydraulics than now? Until the end of the 2ieme GM, the small mills abounded ...

Are not able to do this reasoning at FNE ???

- There is a lack of renewable energy in France and we voluntarily plummets the one with the least defect compared to others (landscape impact, investment cost, regularity ...) ... ????? WTF ???? It really feels the dirty joke ... shareholders edf ... with the complicity of FNE

Look for the mistake, me mistakes I start to feel where they are ... : Evil: : Evil:

Short this news stinks the fascism of the nuclear lobby with the complicity of the grenelle and the ecologists ... At FNE they are cons finis who do the business of financial fascists...

As there are too stupid at FNE, they read at least this: one can very well create a small diversion on all the mills to allow the raising of fish ... moreover very often the mills do not "mill" 100 % of stream flow. Of all the mills that I have seen, none took 100% of the flow, and for good reason we always do a discharge in case of flood ...

We can see this "discharge" on the photo of the Google article:

Image

Such idiocy that led to the Grenelle is really intriguing ... ah yes but who are funding them again?

ps: see also https://www.econologie.com/forums/energie-hy ... t7231.html
Last edited by Christophe the 19 / 06 / 11, 18: 29, 1 edited once.
0 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 16179
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5263




by Remundo » 19/06/11, 11:51

Exactly,

in my corner, many mills are HS, and many falls (sometimes up to 150 m) could be arranged.

In the plain, low-chute hydraulics are largely underutilized

And the difficulties are much less technical ... than "administrative" :?

And indeed, one invented false problems with small fish that would not be able to pass a threshold 20 cm or a small reach that would block migrations in the main bed of a river (SIC) ...
0 x
Image
pb2488
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 837
Registration: 17/08/09, 13:04

Re: French microhydraulics in danger! Nuclear lobby and




by pb2488 » 19/06/11, 13:47

Christophe wrote:- If 1700 micro-plants in place equivalent to 2 nuclear reactors then one can imagine, at equivalent average power, that 30 000 potential mills to be put back into service would equate to 30 000 / 1700 * 2 = 35 Nuclear Reactors... Who said that nuclear power was essential in France and that wind turbines would not be enough to replace it?


Are you sure of your calculation ???
I have doubts. You would have more info / source stp?
0 x
"The truth can not be defined as the majority opinion:
The truth is what follows from the observation of facts. "
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79364
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11060




by Christophe » 19/06/11, 14:27

I am based on the figures of the article, it is a beast product cross ... If micro 1.700 2 = 30 then 000 35 micro-reactors = XNUMX reactors, valid only in unit power unit constant constant!

After we can refine because it seems to me actually also a lot ... (you said I was irritated by this info!)

What power was needed to turn a wheel? :?:

Because the average power, 2 GW / 1700 ca is still 1.17 MW, which is a lot for a millstone (a hundred CV / kw seem to me closer to the reality of the power of a small non-grain mill ?)
0 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 16179
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5263




by Remundo » 19/06/11, 14:53

if you want to have the ideas a little clearer, read the 2006 Dambrine report

Here is a table summarizing the installed park and the possibility of improvement.

The accumulated small hydraulic and picohydraulics can represent from 1 to 2 GW.
Image
0 x
Image
pb2488
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 837
Registration: 17/08/09, 13:04




by pb2488 » 19/06/11, 15:04

Christophe wrote:I am based on the figures of the article, it is a beast product cross ... If micro 1.700 2 = 30 then 000 35 micro-reactors = XNUMX reactors, valid only in unit power unit constant constant!

30000 mills = 30000 micro-power plants ???
0 x
"The truth can not be defined as the majority opinion:

The truth is what follows from the observation of facts. "
User avatar
Obamot
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 28725
Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
Location: regio genevesis
x 5538




by Obamot » 19/06/11, 15:09

YOU SHOULD NOT STOP EM ... EACH TIME YOU SPEAK ABOUT ENERGY ALTERNATIVES IN A WIRE, TO RETURN TO CHARGE WITH YOUR INCIDIOUS DOUBTS AIMED AT PROMOTING NUCLEAR POWER.

No, but it's a real disease.
Last edited by Obamot the 19 / 06 / 11, 15: 12, 1 edited once.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79364
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11060




by Christophe » 19/06/11, 15:15

Oh yes, thank you Raymond, we are far from the equivalent 35 engines, not even 3 ... not good to get excited it makes nonsense!

Does not prevent on this one, at FNE they are still dirty cons ...

In this subject you already announced 2 GW in picohydraulic accumulated on 1800 installations ... well it sticks with the figures of the article.

Otherwise the average load factor is lower than the one I thought ... :| 32% based on figures from 20 page of .pdf

pb2488 wrote:30000 mills = 30000 micro-power plants ???


Yeah and pkoi not? That would be the goal, no?

Anyway, Remundo found the precise figures, it is far from the account ... not even equivalent 3 engines ... so an average power per mill less than 100kW ...

Obamot he has not said anything yet ...
Last edited by Christophe the 19 / 06 / 11, 15: 19, 1 edited once.
0 x
User avatar
Obamot
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 28725
Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
Location: regio genevesis
x 5538

Re: French microhydraulics in danger! Nuclear lobby and




by Obamot » 19/06/11, 15:18

I look ... : Mrgreen: : Cheesy: : Mrgreen: :D :D :D :D 8)

Christophe wrote:The energy potential is very important but it does not please everyone, then, as in other cases, we invent false problems and update standards to plague small producers ... that disturb the profits of the big ...


Ditto at home, where the production of independent producers had been capped. The day after the decision to leave the nuclear, this was the first step taken by the Federal Council, to remove these absurd quotas ...

So if you wanted a causal link between the voluntary legislative blockades of the nuclear lobby to prevent the development of renewable energy, there would be no better ...
Last edited by Obamot the 19 / 06 / 11, 15: 22, 1 edited once.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79364
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11060

Re: French microhydraulics in danger! Nuclear lobby and




by Christophe » 19/06/11, 15:22

+ 1 for the link ...

Obamot wrote:I look : Mrgreen: : Cheesy: : Mrgreen: :D :D :D :D 8)


Pfff, it's not what's called the trial of intent?
It's not zoli zoli !!
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "hydraulic, wind, geothermal, marine energy, biogas ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 175 guests